Rotary works v bishop

[schlick]

Ok so after getting back into tattooing, again, after another hiatus, again I decided to take the plunge into rotarys after about 6 months with the hybrid. I originally chose the hybrid because I also airbrush and liked the thought of being able to plumb a whole shop for myself, however I have never used it without the powerpack. Neuma headquarters is about 30 minutes from me when I'm in CA and personally they have been very easy to work with in that, I call, they answer, I ride over with some money or in need of some tech help, they take care of it and I leave.
So now I have decided to switch up to all rotary or at least try it and I placed orders for two rotary works and one bishop. My experience so far has been a little uncomfortable in that I haven't "talked" to anyone yet and that is just my preference. I like to "go/look/pay cash" but that is just me. On the other hand I would love it if I only had to deal with customers through email so I get it. My rotary works arrived yesterday (thurs) after being shipped last monday (for those with shipping questions) and I am currently in Montana if that is any help. My first email from Bishop that said my order was being processed was on the 30th of last month and here we are on the 15th, so whatever. I had some email trouble with them in that I could not reply to the email address that they were replying to me from (if that makes any sense) so Maybe like Tuesday of last week I think I got it straightened out... maybe, I don't know, my email from this past weekend has yet to be confirmed. So, hopefully this all works out.
As for the Rotary Works I hope to try them out today after some initial concerns yesterday. Beautiful out of the box but one definitely ran stronger than the other and had a right side pull to it. After some observation I noticed that one spun clockwise and the other, stronger one spun counterclockwise. So I reversed the RCA connection and now both spin clockwise and smooth but one is still much faster than the other. I'm not sure if clockwise is correct, I did my first tattoos with rotaries and the way I learned was clockwise, but there is nothing to say that the guys I learned from knew what they were talking about. So, we will see how it goes and I will update this and if anyone can help me troubleshoot to get these things running identically please let me know.

[Administrator]

There is a positive and negative side to the rotary works motor. If you are able to peel back the motor cover a little you will likely see the red dot (positive) so you can check how the polarity is wired in respect to your RCA. From what I can tell seeing the rotary works is it will run without disruption clockwise or counter clockwise. the only issue is some motors prefer to only run in one direction to extend the life of the motor. The rotary works runs on a piston driven by an eccentric cam with no dwell or timing spring installed so clockwise or counter clockwise should not effect the efficiency of the up down motion the machine produces. The main reason you where probably tought clockwise in the past was to make sure the motor is not going to be unhappy running the wrong way. I didnt build these machines so this is based on observations about Dale's machines and other motors and machines I have played with in the past.

From what I have seen there are two motors Dale uses, one is happy around 2 to 3.5 volts and the other is happy from 8 to 11 or so. Try running them very low and also up around 8 or so and see how they feel.

[schlick]

I run the small eikon es-200 power supply so there is no readout, but they are about a volt and a half off of each other and one is louder. Also I dont think efficiency was effected but it did feel different. Where I learned we couldn't keep a motor long enough to worry about it burning out but cds and tapes spin clockwise so there you go. In my hand both feel good but there is a difference. I am assuming I will be using them for different things and so will most likely not notice. hopefully next week when my new power supply lands some of this will solve itself.

[Administrator]

If they are off by only a little its more then likely the same motor. Rotaries are not always quiet, some more then others. Dale's is pretty quiet but very loud if you have it running really high.

Which new power supply did you order?

[schlick]

Critical cx-2, I will also be getting an eikon however for now I am on the road and the critical makes more sense from a convenience standpoint.

[Alie K]

Have you had a chance to speak with Dale about this yet? If he isn't crazy busy, he's usually very good about answering questions. Is there a chance that you got two different machines by mistake (as in a regular stroke and one of his shorter stroke machines?)

[schlick]

I dont have a micrometer just right now but from what I can tell visually it is not the stroke. I haven't had the opportunity yet to speak with Dale and I'm not really expecting (or chasing) it thought it would be nice. I emailed him on facebook the first day but it was just after he had mentioned how swamped he was with all of his emails. so there you go. Regretfully I'm not the type to sit around waiting to figure out how to fix a tool that I need or can ultimately fix on my own. This is mainly just my experience so far. Really it's only a difference of 1/2 to 1 volt so I am not super concerned. Worst case scenario the machine with the red RCA will be used for one thing and the Black one for another just to keep the lineup the same for the new power supply. I havent had the opportunity to do anything yet photo worthy but both have done all that I have asked and with the exception of the running difference, reversed RCA and the little nut on the back of the RCA connection spinning loose during a tattoo there have been no major running problems. (I would also like to state that in comparison to my experience with coils this is all SUPER minor and basically cosmetic). I am so pleased with them that I am still planning on swithching over to rotary full time with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 coils, and I would also like to state that had I not ordered two simultaneously and ran them together right out of the box, I may have never noticed this difference. Now if I could only get my hands on my Bishop. Oh why have you forsaken me, Franco!? This is worse than waiting for Jail Mail. Just kidding but I did do a lot of research prior to buying and wait and shipping time were a factor for me. I don't mind in the long run but I have read everything from "10 day wait" to "2 week wait" to "next day shipping". I get the situation and the industry and it isn't really a big deal ultimately, but personally I would be fine with a "Thanks for the money it'll be there when it gets there". At least then I wouldn't keep checking or have anything to bitch about. One more question about RW though. what is the best oil for it? The card says surgical lube, I'm familiar with a great many lubes but this is one I do not know where to buy any insight would be helpful. Also is there a "right way" for RW motors to spin? I just dont want to burn them out running clockwise if its wrong. Thank you Admins for shooting the shit with me on this.

[The Limey]

Vaseline is what Dale recommended for lubrication when I spoke to him.

Something worth considering too is that Dale doesn't make the motors and because they are what is commonly called a stock motor in RC racing there is no way to advance or retard the timing so, the speed they run at is governed by the manufacturer and more importantly, that speed will vary from motor to motor.

[schlick]

that is what I figured in regards to the motor. Most direct answer yet anyway. I understand buying the motors pre-made which makes all of the bashing on here about everyone "stealing" everyone elses designs and movement principals HILARIOUS. However a more sensable part of me thinks that a company with the technology to make RC motors all day has the ability to make them a little closer than this. Not bashing them, just making a statement. RC guys RACE. and believe it or not they have $. (I know because I just told an RC helicopter guy that it would cost $1000 to paint his $6000 toy but I also got to meet his manyfacturer) I get that every one will run a little different, but we are talking about it sounding different to my ear and feeling different to my hand, not a computer or PS readout. I would think they could get a little closer than that (banging on the motor manufacturer and not Dale in any way).

[hendricksonart.com]

Did you ever get your bishop if so how long did it take?

[Zophod12]

Did you ever get your bishop if so how long did it take?
Plus 1

[schlick]

so, no luck on the bishop yet but I did get my critical power supply today and am pretty stoked about that. I think I am about 3 weeks in after my initial bishop request and a little ove 2 weeks after whoever takes the paypal money confirmed. I'll update when it gets here. I did however have a chance to use my Rotary Works extensively yesterday on an all day piece. The little brass nut on the rca part shook off on both machines, very agrivating. One will be down for a day till I can solder it back up and both are getting a healthy dose of loctite on that part. Aside from that I would have to say that from lining to shading to color the Machines did every bit of what I asked them to do and my only real regret was not being able to set up 4 of the same machine because running 4 volts for an RW and 12 for a neuma Hybrid gets to be a bit of a pain in the ass. Hopefully now with the new PS and when the bishop lands this will be no more of a problem. So small headaches aside it is a BIG thumbs up for RW on this. I'll try to add the pics, if I dont do it right they are on my Facebook.com/mickeyschlick and I'll hopefully get better bics with a better camera later today.
2275227622772278

[The Limey]

Looks like the RW worked very well for you and on a plus note, now you've got your Critical switching machines/voltages will just be a simple button press.

[Administrator]

Those one piece rotary works machines look very nice!

[schlick]

22842285so this is the pics from today

[schlick]

these are.....oops

[hendricksonart.com]

Im going on two weeks as well since paying and there 45 mis from me.

[schlick]

yeah i get around down there and hit up anaheim or wherever they are all the time and would have jst wanted to go there and get it. ive met Franco and he is a cool dude and the machine looks dope but at this point rotary works have done all that i asked and for basically the same price got twice as many machines in 1/2 the time.

[peter clements]

I think that's a lovely tattoo you've done there-congrats. RWs are a great machine especially at the price, you'll also love the Bishop when you get it, it's worth the wait. Just one suggestion-stop teasing yourself with RCA jacks, I used em for years, gone back to clipcords, Eikon and Talon Tattoo make some really nice ones. Now I look back the RCA jacks were just a novelty, we always go back to what's most practical.

[The Limey]

Just one suggestion-stop teasing yourself with RCA jacks, I used em for years, gone back to clipcords, Eikon and Talon Tattoo make some really nice ones. Now I look back the RCA jacks were just a novelty, we always go back to what's most practical.

Oh don't even go there Peter :)

[schlick]

it's not the plug it is the bagging and unbagging that is just easier for me. I'm going to start making my own RCA and clip cords for myself and as soon as I get back home I am going to turn some clipcord connections on the lathe. Also as is my current situation with the RW's the machines are put together upside down of one another so the positive is on top on one of them and on the bottom of the other. In an attempt to keep things as consistent as possible I want each machine spinning the same direction each time I start it (whichever way that is) and so having the RCA's keep all of that straight for me without worrying about it (I know all I have to do for the RW's is turn the frame over but I haven't gotten that far yet), Plus I think I did decide to switch back to clipcords the day after Dale shipped my shit which was already a week into the Bishop order and I did;t want to rock that boat. So, I'll make a couple of cords and some RCA connections and see how it all goes I guess

[peter clements]

I've already PM'd this to Limey, but what the heck you can all read why I've gone back to clipcords.............

I started using RCAs years ago, it was my pal Danny Harkin who set me off with it. As the coil collection grew I got sick of converting them only to have to do it all over again should you wish to sell the machines on. I started using Dringenbergs and Cifferis, and just didn't want to tamper anymore. At the time Eikon had fetched out their new clipcord in silicone, I gave them a try and really liked them and still do,I've had to repair mine once in three years. One thing that really annoyed me with the RCAs was if the lead snagged on anything, it would yank out of the machine, something simple like in between someone's toes when tattooing the leg. I'll accept that RCAs are more cool to look at, but that's about it for me. There you have it "The Clipcord story".

[gravyray]

I personally found the RCA easier. Bagging the cord and switching between machines is alot easier to me. I always loved those coil machines that the binding post was right on top of each other and I could barely get the clips in. I think its just personal taste for sure. I still have both.

[hendricksonart.com]

maybe i used poor rca adapters but instead of replacing one clip cord i found my self replacing each individual rca connection on each machine which is a total pain. If you havnt tried the clip cords from lucky supply try them out the best I have ever used

[peter clements]

If you havnt tried the clip cords from lucky supply try them out the best I have ever used[/QUOTE]

I have one of those aswell, yes, they are nice.

[peter clements]

For those of you that love the RCAs, these look like a very good cord http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tattoo-CLIP-CORD-TALON-RCA-Jack-All-colors-/370495623464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5643429128

[FRANCO VESCOVI]

Im going on two weeks as well since paying and there 45 mis from me.

I appologize Hendrickson and Schlick indeed its been a very hectic past few months with getting all the orders taken care of. We have received quite a few orders and I have to mention that each machine is hand tuned and sanded to perfection and so it takes alot longer to make each machine as compared to other rotaries that may be less parts therefore easy to build. We CNC each machine here in house and we wont sacrifice quality for speed, believe me Id love to ship out orders the next day However we have partnered up with a longtime machinist friend of mine to help with production on all our smaller screws and parts and we expect in the near future to be having all machines in stock ready to ship, or no more than a few days back ordered at the most. We take payments first just so we put those people first on the list when new batches are made. each batch of machines take us about a month to build, and if your order is 3 weeks old then your order was caught in the middle of those batches therefore the long wait. But I am oldschool, and the customer is always right. How can I make this wait worth your while? I will custom engrave your guys machine no charge or if you call me I will offer other items to suffice this wait. Thank you guys and hope you understand..

[slicksteel]

For those of you that love the RCAs, these look like a very good cord http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tattoo-CLIP-CORD-TALON-RCA-Jack-All-colors-/370495623464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5643429128

have those cords made very well and drap easy

[hendricksonart.com]

hey no worries a response is plenty good for me ill be patient its just hard im new to rotaries and already love them and want to try a decent one. Thanks for dropping the note

[schlick]

Franco, I have no question of the quality of your work, and I am not tripping on the wait, I would just be stoked to not wait for the mail man every day. Yard flashbacks and what not. So, I get it and it I'm not stressed I just want that in the line up and in the ordering of a bunch of equiptment from a bunch of companies this was the first ordered and last received. All I really care is that if I ask or research about something and find information (such as wait) I want that to be the case so I dont have to try to clarify later. A day wait or a year it is a precision tool and it takes what it takes, I just want to know what it takes I understand you will do whatever you have to to get it to me asap and you get that I am not hounding the situation. Just stating my experience as I will once I give the machine a run.

[The Limey]

Hopefully I'll get to try a Bishop in the not too distant future.

[hendricksonart.com]

I appologize Hendrickson and Schlick indeed its been a very hectic past few months with getting all the orders taken care of. We have received quite a few orders and I have to mention that each machine is hand tuned and sanded to perfection and so it takes alot longer to make each machine as compared to other rotaries that may be less parts therefore easy to build. We CNC each machine here in house and we wont sacrifice quality for speed, believe me Id love to ship out orders the next day However we have partnered up with a longtime machinist friend of mine to help with production on all our smaller screws and parts and we expect in the near future to be having all machines in stock ready to ship, or no more than a few days back ordered at the most. We take payments first just so we put those people first on the list when new batches are made. each batch of machines take us about a month to build, and if your order is 3 weeks old then your order was caught in the middle of those batches therefore the long wait. But I am oldschool, and the customer is always right. How can I make this wait worth your while? I will custom engrave your guys machine no charge or if you call me I will offer other items to suffice this wait. Thank you guys and hope you understand..
I dont mind waiting is there any way I could get a time estimate at all?

[schlick]

So, at this point I am expecting my Bishop on Monday and will probably start a new thread then but I got to use my RWs more this week and had another problem. Here is the scenario, I had the neuma hybrid set up as one of my shaders and switched machines and hit my painfactoryinc.com footswitch before lowering the voltage. So the neuma runs on significantly higher voltage than the RW. Due to the speed and vibration one of the frame screws came out and lodged stopping the piston. So, After a quick dose of loctite and a cleaning, re-lubing and flipping the frame over so that I now have both machines with pos on top. then I was back on the road, complete tear down and rebuild in like 5 min and that was all it took. Awesome design and the tattoos are going great and it seems much faster as well (that leg tattoo took me the same time as a piece 1/2 the size did recently), however I would have to suggest that anyone considering buying them also invest in a $6 mini screwdriver set and small tube of loctite just in case. I will be able to observe the healing process throughout the entire process of the leg piece so that will be good

[rotaryworks]

Never to busy to answer questions ..the volts thing not all motors run the same and with all moving parts you will get a slight difference it's fine as long as your happy with them running diff motors do run better one way so try both ways ..and the two screws on the front of frame loosen one off a tiny bit that makes a diff some times any more questions just ask I am very busy but I'm on here and Facebook every day I'm here to sort any problem out for you guys no problem I will be away from shop till 7may but I will be getting my msg while away on my phone ...the post thing it says 4 day any where but post is full of it if you guys want pay £80 fedex next day ish many thanks all Dale

[gangstajay]

hey dale I made a trade with elbo and got that 1 piece machine from him, very nice...runs very smooth

[Alie K]

So, at this point I am expecting my Bishop on Monday and will probably start a new thread then but I got to use my RWs more this week and had another problem. Here is the scenario, I had the neuma hybrid set up as one of my shaders and switched machines and hit my painfactoryinc.com footswitch before lowering the voltage. So the neuma runs on significantly higher voltage than the RW. Due to the speed and vibration one of the frame screws came out and lodged stopping the piston. So, After a quick dose of loctite and a cleaning, re-lubing and flipping the frame over so that I now have both machines with pos on top. then I was back on the road, complete tear down and rebuild in like 5 min and that was all it took. Awesome design and the tattoos are going great and it seems much faster as well (that leg tattoo took me the same time as a piece 1/2 the size did recently), however I would have to suggest that anyone considering buying them also invest in a $6 mini screwdriver set and small tube of loctite just in case. I will be able to observe the healing process throughout the entire process of the leg piece so that will be good

I often forget to lower the voltage when I use my RW and another machine - it scares the living daylight out of me!

[gangstajay]

I often forget to lower the voltage when I use my RW and another machine - it scares the living daylight out of me!
oh yeah alie I have done it often and yes you will jump...lol

[inked]

I often forget to lower the voltage when I use my RW and another machine - it scares the living daylight out of me!
me too Allie, when i interchange between my machines without changing voltage.i was spooked out by the shock that i actually almost drop the RW at time LOL

[The Limey]

me too Allie, when i interchange between my machines without changing voltage.i was spooked out by the shock that i actually almost drop the RW at time LOL

Haha I've been there too, mine sounded like a mini chainsaw about scared me half to death!

[schlick]

Yeah I know that one was on me and most likely I will be selling or trading off my hybrid to avoid it in the future cause I like the RWs that much. Also I would like to point out again that I had a wait of about a week and a half after Dale shipped it to me in the NW states which I thought was awesome being international and with customs and all.

[schlick]

bishop landed new thread!