Sublime

[BIG ROOS]

Has anyone tried this machine?
23815
just curious to know how it fairs in comparison to the spektra.

[fkirons]

Don't get me started #%^+*}<~#%


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[1982geeeeb]

Wtf is that :-/

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[No Iron Machines]

Not even a idea to develop new design, bullshit paolo fernando...

[reigningink]

Wow.... just wow.... who the hell copies something just to make a less refined version?

[OwlsDen]

Don't get me started #%^+*}<~#%


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I think this is the time and the place. Have you heard from them? I am almost certain you must have said something to them.

[peter clements]

I can certainly see the issue here, but aren't "Electric ink" supposed to be a respectable company ? What's going on ?

[Wonderland]

now that there is a blatant ripoff, what an asshole you have to be to do this. Don't buy it, it's a copy of a great design sold by douchenozzels.

[vodu]

I can certainly see the issue here, but aren't "Electric ink" supposed to be a respectable company ? What's going on ?

No. Really.


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[No Iron Machines]

for my opinion, PAULO FERNANDO for develop this machines have a real SPEKTRA on his hands.... THA'S ALL....

[fkirons]

I wish him the best! :)

[BIG ROOS]

Well im not sure who BILL DEVENNY is but he made a bold statement by saying it was "better" than halo spektra. Of course i put my two cents on this. And after i basically said prove it. He posted a video of test runs. And a tattoo peice done by Niklas Westin. Now i am still on the fact that he refuse to admit the design was halo spektra inspired. And his response was , that if that was the case. Every coil tattoo machine builder is a copying someone elses design. Jeezuz.

[darkness]

haha ... the thunder was the worst machine that i ever have buy :))

[tat2edsoda2000]

its a straight copy. any one who can't see it is blind. lame.

[vodu]

It is crap. A friend of mine sells tattoo products and after selling two, one in the same day burnt the motor, the other days later broke too. He doesn't sell anymore. The other pf rotaries I saw in my hands by a fellow artist and I can say it's crap. Poor materials, poor project and crap plastic.


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[skullsugar@lucky13]

Well joe capobianco posts pics of him using it on instagram every day... But fuck them clearly a rip and the customer service wont touch fk's

[nivek]

I get "inspired" but that thing is a halo. I am all for free enterprise, (eg frame design etc) but that thing looks like he took a halo - added a some grooves and called it a day.

As for others using it - Capa etc, I don't look to my peers to tell me what is right etc, that shit is straight up not cool with me. I know people using the rip offs the blatant copies, doesn't mean I am going to.

[inkinwi]

The bishop and impact are blatant copies of Rays neotat, and the valour is basically the same damn thing as well with a needlerunner and magnets instead of a mechanical stay up spring... it happens. It sucks for the originator of the design, but it happens. The only rotaries out there currently that dont steal elements from the others are the Neotats, Cheyennes, Sidewinders from what I've read, and Centris. All the others out there are redesigned versions of the others.

[nivek]

Cheyennes are pretty much just perm makeup machines. I get the redesigned concept, I mean more or less its all the same idea - a motor moving a cam moving the "pin" or straight DD, hell if you want to get down to it the Neo tat is just a redesigned Spaulding revolution. But when you straight rip it off ... its a bit more of a raised eyebrow.

The elements are all there how they put it together is the thing. THat also being said - Gaston came up with a great idea - the motorbolt, it was a good idea and as much as it sucks to say others are going to run with it.

It would be nice how ever if people at least attempted to put some work into making sure there is some elements that keep it from being a straight rip.

I can only imagine how much of a piss off it would be, but there's also the flattering aspect = OBVIOUSLY this guy thinks the idea the look etc is a good one otherwise he wouldnt use it. I guess when you spend all that time and money developing you have to take heart in the fact it is such an icon look that others are going to rip it as a way to sell their machine.

I mean honestly it still is tattooing and that is a pure one source leads to another type of entity. BUT I digress - I'll keep my halos kubins etc and go back to drawing that "original" anchor my client asked for.

[zack_fa1r]

hey big roos, bill deveny is the uk and ireland supplier for electric ink so he sells all of paulo's products for him, really nice guy and top customer service.

and capobianco is also associated with paulo fernando as he makes joe's brand of ink dermaglow, so he's bound to use the machine at some point. electric is made in the same factory but just a different colour pallet and easier for us in euope to get hold of.

[FRANCO VESCOVI]

The bishop and impact are blatant copies of Rays neotat, and the valour is basically the same damn thing as well with a needlerunner and magnets instead of a mechanical stay up spring... it happens. It sucks for the originator of the design, but it happens. The only rotaries out there currently that dont steal elements from the others are the Neotats, Cheyennes, Sidewinders from what I've read, and Centris. All the others out there are redesigned versions of the others.

TIME TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT...Many rotary users don't quite know the history of the rotary machines including the linear models such as my Bishop, Neo-tat or even the Spektra Halo or any that has a linear slide powered by a rotating offset cam and bearing. I have been using rotary machines since 1996 and have tried out a few of the earlier ones such as the first swash drive, the Mei-Cha and my favorite at the time the REVOLUTION 1 rotary machine that WAS THE FIRST LINEAR MACHINE invented and that I ever used. I tattooed with this machine from 1996 till about 2000. This was the inspiration for my Bishop machines because the REVOLUTION was the FIRST rotary machine to use the linear slide and offset cam/bearing for movement and thats what I found to be so precise, but I didnt find other parts of thr machine to be of practical use. This is where Neo-tat got its idea from but designed a different frame and needle clip. The needle clip was also Huck Spauldings design but it was a bit difficult to use and you had to use their needles. Here is an original quote they have used on their booklets and site since 1995...

"The Revolution does not require rubber bands to hold the needle bar in place as with coil type machines. One machine is all that is required for doing outline and color work, no adjustments to make except for changing needle bar and tube. The Revolution II comes with any one of the listed tube and needle bar combinations (your choice). Patent #8,470,068
"

So to say my machine is a Neo-tat copy is to say that Neo-tat was the first, when I'm sure they got their linear drive idea from REVOLUTION or by some dumb luck they just happened to invent an already used drive system prototyped by Spaulding as early as 1993, but either way, REVOLUTION was first LINEAR driven machine and thats not even a debate, its history. I've spoke to Ray before and we have no problems with each other and theres a mutual respect because we both understand the history. I see people misinformed and want people to know the history of these machines and anyone here on the forums that have been tattooing for over 15-20 years I'm sure know about the REVOLUTION which until now, no one gives its due credit. (I know these facts because Im a serious rotary nerd and have been for over 20 years)

I started making my machines in 2008 way before it was popular and there were only a small handfull of rotary companies (maybe 5 in total) and none were highly successful due to the low demand for them at the time. Fast forward to 2011 when the rotary craze really began, we witnessed more than 100 new rotary companies surface out of nowhere ONLY because they saw the demand was strong for the market. I will always have respect for companies like Huck Spaulding, Swash Drive and Neo-Tat only because they truly started making rotary machines for all the reasons except money, because there wasn't much back then. I believe it was because like me, they believed it was a much better type of machine compared to coils. When I started making machines, Shit, I lost money for the first 3 years in design costs, prototyping and material, I almost pulled the plug many times because as many builders know, ITS NOT EASY getting started and a VERY expensive project.

I would love to hear anyones feedback and I am not being critical of any company in particular, I just want people to make educated decisions based on real history when forming opinions as to who did what or who copied who. The truth is, there are only a few ways to make a coil machine, and frame designs are about the only way to distinguish who's who. Same for rotary machines, theres either Direct Drive, Linear movement, Swash plate movement. Those 3 movements can be diced up many different ways, and given each owns different frames so as for Direct copies like Lauro paulini who blatantly copied my frame, or the chinese who do the same, I feel thats the part that is WAY WRONG, but I get so tired of people claiming who was first when its all relative on so many levels and people are so misinformed. So for now, lets keep pushing the envelope on what we can REALLy call our own, like My buddy Gastons (FkIrons) hex bolt movement on his direct drive, or John Clarks Magnetic rotary, as for everything else, Its owned by no one. Ive seen many of the popular rotary machines and I noticed something that maybe only a builder may see, and its that each machine seems to have "Borrowed" at least ONE or more things from another company and Id pay someone BIG MONEY to show me a rotary machine that is 100% all their OWN except for again, John Clarks magnetic driven rotary. (Im sure we all agree hes just a true inventor hands down)

Hope this info was helpfull, now Lets hear some commentary...

[JoeyJimz]

Thankyou for sharing that history with us. I love reading that shit its good to know our history and the tools we all use. Apreciate that post thanks Franco

[FRANCO VESCOVI]

Thankyou for sharing that history with us. I love reading that shit its good to know our history and the tools we all use. Apreciate that post thanks Franco

One more fact, Cheyenne was not the inventor of their drive system either. Mei-Cha was a company founded in 1984, Many years before Nuveau, Parent company of Cheyenne. Also Mei-Cha was first to use a similar type of cartridge system that was later re invented by Cheyenne. These are facts that anyone can research, but I'm old I guess, and I've got to actually use these devices in the mid 90's

[artoftatt2]

I've been telling people about the revolution firever now.. Those things were awesome

[brandonmull]

Cars. Ford? Nope several at the same time . allllll auto makers use the same concepts with very few innovators.
it is the way the human mind works. There isnt a single builder out there that hasnt taken a concept from somewhere else. End of story . Some just care enough to make a far better product.

[inkinwi]

I never owned or had a chance to see a Revolution(except pictures). I was always curious on what their system was. Didn't it use a straight bar, no eyelet?

[No Iron Machines]

hey FRANCO, did u send any message to this stupid LAURO PAOLINI about copy your machines ???? im from ITALY, i know this stupid guy, him always copy everything see around, same the MAGNUM NEEDLES JIG, the guy invented is from BRASIL, LAURO PAOLINI buy copy straight and tell everybody around the world that was him to invented, BULLSHIT

[vodu]

I saw one prototype in hands in Sao Paulo, 2003, was the guy from ogival needles who did and before I saw the prototype, he had already a first version model in 2000-2001

[vodu]

hey FRANCO, did u send any message to this stupid LAURO PAOLINI about copy your machines ???? im from ITALY, i know this stupid guy, him always copy everything see around, same the MAGNUM NEEDLES JIG, the guy invented is from BRASIL, LAURO PAOLINI buy copy straight and tell everybody around the world that was him to invented, BULLSHIT

I saw one prototype in hands in Sao Paulo, 2003, was the guy from ogival needles who did and before I saw the prototype, he had already a first version model in 2000-2001

[No Iron Machines]

isso mesmo, o cara das OGIVAL, beleza, o safdo do LAURO PAOLINI compro' levo pra italia, y fabrico ....FILHO DA PUTA

eu trabalhe no RIO en 2006-2007, com GANSO, SYLVIO y a galera do MEGA WARTZ....he he

[slicksteel]

I never owned or had a chance to see a Revolution(except pictures). I was always curious on what their system was. Didn't it use a straight bar, no eyelet?
the bar had no eyelet -had a small indeted flat spot on top near end.
You slide it in the slide like the beast. In the slide was a theaded hole from the outside with a bearing a ball and screw-when you push the needle bar in, the bearing ball holds it in place.

[ATS]

Thanks for posting that Franco.. very informative and puts things in perspective.

[FRANCO VESCOVI]

Thanks for posting that Franco.. very informative and puts things in perspective.


Welcome. I often have been asked why I chose to make a linear driven rotary machine and what was my reason, Simply just wanted to shine light on the revolution since it was the first OG machine of this nature and deserved the spotlight that it was never given.

[vodu]

PF is so cool that I didn´t know he invented the bulldog frame as he claims in this video. So honest!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=852495741433238&set=vb.214727281876757&type=2&theater

[serial1313]

That is fucking hilarious!

[vodu]

Look what I've found today in my friend's workshop! Read your post franco really nice, so I've found like a pleasant coincidence.(i'm not being sarcastic or anything like that just for the record, It's just because I saw this machine today and remembered the post you did)
By the way do you have any clue why there's a thing like the ones in PS at the side? A knob?


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/epupazyp.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/dede2ege.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/y2erares.jpg


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[fkirons]

Look what I've found today in my friend's workshop! Read your post franco really nice, so I've found like a pleasant coincidence.(i'm not being sarcastic or anything like that just for the record, It's just because I saw this machine today and remembered the post you did)
By the way do you have any clue why there's a thing like the ones in PS at the side?


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/epupazyp.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/dede2ege.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/y2erares.jpg


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I'm I recall correctly you can adjust voltage from the machine.
I also have a set of two machines somewhere. They came in a case with a bulky power supply with banana plugs and a footswitch.

Franco is correct. This machine was the first slide rotary I saw myself. It had a Delrin Cam with a tiny 5mm bearing. Mine was a bit noisy.

I think they still make them if I'm not mistaken.


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[vodu]

This one looks like it have a conector like the rapier


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[Administrator]

PF is so cool that I didn´t know he invented the bulldog frame as he claims in this video. So honest!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=852495741433238&set=vb.214727281876757&type=2&theater

My Portuguese is rusty! I needed to watch that video a few times.

[FRANCO VESCOVI]

LMAO, man oh man. Ray told me himself, his patent was in made in 2003...in 2007 or 2008 you purchased a Neotat from him, then in 2009 you came out with the Bishop. Coincidence? I think not.

Interesting assessment of the truth...So since you seem to know it all, then can I ask you which company was first to create a rotary machine with a LINEAR slide driven by an OFFSET CAM and a needle locking device? Ill give you a clue... The machine company that was first to do so, did it in 1993, and introduced it to the market in 1995. Another clue for you my man, the company was called Huck Spaulding. However no, I didn't buy a Neotat in 2007-2008 but indeed (just like every other builder) have used all rotary machines I could find before 2008 including a Neotat. What does that have to do with anything, unless you are you referring to the needle clip? I believe Ray/Neotat was indeed first to apply this clip instead of the way the revolution had their clipped in needle vice. So in a way, He made it better and it worked for him and his vision. Facts are, they both were designed to make the needlebar movement ultra presice...

I found that having only one clip leads to breakage, so I added 2 of them (in case one breaks) and I am working on what I think will be even a better idea on some of my future machines, so are you saying Ray is wrong for using and improving upon the technology of the revolution? In that case am I equally wrong for improving mine to what I felt was better for my vision? Whats your point, or do you even have one other than trying to disrespect me? I think Ray would agree that my machines if anything, made a statement that linear rotary machines were definitly a good thing, and me hyping this linear movement only helped his company by default. Me and Ray have talked about this very fact and in no way am I insinuating any disrespect to Ray. We both had the same vision way before money was a factor.

Its pointless to say things unless you have the history and facts. Factually, I have YET to see any rotary machine created that hasn't "Borrowed" something from someone else's and Id give a hefty reward to anyone that can disprove this fact. However, Thank you for your opinion, Its what keeps these threads full on facts and information for the viewers.

[FRANCO VESCOVI]

Look what I've found today in my friend's workshop! Read your post franco really nice, so I've found like a pleasant coincidence.(i'm not being sarcastic or anything like that just for the record, It's just because I saw this machine today and remembered the post you did)
By the way do you have any clue why there's a thing like the ones in PS at the side? A knob?





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Yes it was for controlling the voltage/speed, but It wasnt popular among its users and was hard to keep sterile. Also revolution was the first machine ever to use the mono type connection that was later used by Neotat. Its interesting because I believe this is the best type of connection ever, But too many people are stuck in their old school clip cord/RCA connections to give it a chance.

[JoeyJimz]

Some people are salty as fawk and straight haters. Like what does it even matter you guys all make awesome machines and have made contributions to this industry as a whole. To sit here and talk shit on someone and to say their machine is any less of a machine cause of this or that is fucken retarded. And I have to agree with franco and i don't even own a bishop if you gonna talk shit at least know your history and don't come on here disrespecting cause belive me I know damn well you wouldn't talk that shit to the mans face. this shit is supper retarded progress is what its all about and if your gonna knock someone for taking initiative to bring that progress forward and give us a awesome tool to utilize. Your just a bold face hater. Franco let me be the first to buy a Bishop from you with a Mono connection I'm down lets make it happen.

[brandonmull]

i have a concept that has never been done in a machine. Yet it is only concept and i am working on building a prototype to start all the research of creating what i dreamed of.nothing will be mentioned more of the design, simply because ideas spread like wildfire/ but this will be the first place it will be shown.

[Heath]

I have been working 12+ non stop physical demanding days getting my shop built and read Franco's statement originally that he "came up with" the Bishop's mechanism. I'm retarded and way too tired, my apologies Franco. But I was honestly quoting Ray, Franco. I didn't make that up. You two can piss challenge that another time. :cool: