Cheyenne vs Inkjecta flite v2

[nick]

I am in the search for switching over to the cartridge system. I have researched a number of machines and think I am debating over the cheyenne and flite v2. I am planning on using the T-tech cartridges now since they now have bugpins and different tapers (I have used them back in the day before they were available). From what my coworkers tell me, if I were to go the Cheyenne route both the Spirit and Thunder are needed because neither can do everything? Thunder for lining and color packing while the Spirit is good for smooth color and B&G? If I were to go the Inkjecta route then you have "give" but even IF I did find a setup I like, what are the odds that one setup of the machine would work for lining, color packing, and B&G? And if I were to use the no give setup on the inkjecta there really is no point of having a variable give machine in the first place. One "end all be all machine" is pretty hard to believe in my opinion. Any opinions or suggestions?

[cagelavey]

I think the thunder can really do it all, brother. I have a spirit and it does work more the way im accustomed to tatting but, using the thunder just a few times and I was able to knock out some really smooth blends and it packs colour like a beast. its just changing your hand speed/pressure that's all. a lil learning curve. my experience anyway. I cant speak on the flite, as I don't have one but have heard that they are epic. like a thunder with options. but again using one machine with multiple bars seems like it could be a bother. seems like youd need more than one flite if you wanted to use the multiple bar option. I definitely want one though. I feel with the spirit thunder and the flite t would be an unstoppable combo. I do believe that if here was one you could use for anything it would be the thunder, jmho

[nick]

Cool cagelavey, thanks for your help.

[cagelavey]

no problem. I really love the thunder, really don't think youd be sorry if you picked one up, happy hunting brother.

[AltarVinz]

The thunder is a super color packer. Nice to line with and can make some nice b&g even if the Spirit is à bit better for that last concern. A lot of artists only use the thunder for every task and performs well with it after a short learning curve and adjustments.

[Joshuarowlands]

I'm actually at the same cross roads. I'm torn between these two machines, and the fk irons styled machines. Not sure which route to go. Currently using kubins/rotary works/coils. Dans mc 14 seems to shine with everything other than liners smaller than a 7. In a financial bind so more of a future idea. May just snag a sidewinder but then the t tech idea is a bit redundant


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[No Iron Machines]

im not CART fans, but for my opinion, the INKJECTA FLITE V2 is the most advanced machine for this use, and i think gonna be very hard that someone produce something better, almost impossible, the main point of this is the CUSTOM BRUSHLESS MOTOR, this is something that nobody made before and untill now still nobody have, and more can give u the option of change stroke and the bar for create a softer or harder hit, and is ultra small, and offer the 2 options u can choose the one with normal tube vise, can possible use disposable grip too, so, i think is the most complete for CART

that u don care of all this, the THUNDER is perfect, NO GIVE, ADJUSTABLE GRIP, very small and compact and powerfull enough for everything

or any DIRECT DRIVE can push cart perfect too...ha ha ha ah

[ATS]

Seems like a lot of us are here in the same space of thought !!
I do love carts, but I do also like to have the option of a regular needle/tube set up.. So Cheyenne is not in the equation for me.
So far I've been running a Kubin dd 3.5 with good results.. it pushes t techs well, and gives the chance to run 'conventional' set up.
I've just bought a Kubin MC2 for that extra slap and power, however I'm not 100% convinced with it pushing carts.. Saying that I ran a session last night and it performed ok.. But I have to work with a smaller hang amount, which I'm not so accustomed to...
I'm thinking of picking up a Direkt to give me 'choices', as I've heard they run carts real nice too.
Yeah, the Flite looks to be a good option as well hahaha decisions, decisions!!! :)
I was gonna start a thread about this too... What machine is 'best' for carts, that isn't cart only??? :):confused::p

[DougHardy]

Dan's MC Max was made for running cartridges, and I can attest to it doing the job much, much better than the MC 2. For T-Tech carts, the MC Max and Inkjectas are all I use. When I had my Halo, removing the reciprocating spring as instructed allowed me to use carts as well, and that's another machine you should consider as they are really well built.

[nathan bauer]

Flite hands down you can change stroke lengths and give..(4 options for stroke and 4 for hit) Cheyenne has one hit one stroke. You can remove flite drive bars for autovclaving..not with cheyenne. You have to buy 170$ grips.not with flite vise ...inkjecta is more advanced in every way....The facts don't lie...

[slicksteel]

Bishops push carts supper smooth and have a nice balance of weight. You can use disposable grips ,stainless grips as well as the adj. hawk grip. You can use standard needles as well. And you can get more give by using victor portugal needle bars.

[No Iron Machines]

that u realy wanna use CARTS but also u still wanna use normal needles, better have a machines only for carts, so buy THUNDER and this only use when u have carts, the normal needles u use with all machine u want, don't complicate your life man

[Tattoo junk]

They both feel completely diffrent, i use both for diffrent jobs, the flite feels a lil softer with the hardest flex bar than the thunder...

[jasonadelinia]

Stylus. I prefer that over flite, spirit and thunder. Cheaper too, and really comfortable.

[Steakndchicks]

I have both and use both , I think the thunder is definitely a learning but it is a all around good machine ( hits hard ) . I would have to say the inkjecta definitely has the upper hand because of how soft - hard you can adjust everything and change the strokes and hit to your liking where when you get the thunder it is what it is . Also the inkjecta packs super fast as we'll even with the soft bar . Amazing machine !! This is my opinion . I see a lot of people that grab a hawk and kill it on the first try . To me I had to adjust

[poleson]

I have both and use both , I think the thunder is definitely a learning but it is a all around good machine ( hits hard ) . I would have to say the inkjecta definitely has the upper hand because of how soft - hard you can adjust everything and change the strokes and hit to your liking where when you get the thunder it is what it is . Also the inkjecta packs super fast as we'll even with the soft bar . Amazing machine !! This is my opinion . I see a lot of people that grab a hawk and kill it on the first try . To me I had to adjust
This is great info.

I think we can all agree that the flite v2.1 has more bells and whistles, but I'm searching for a comparison of how they feel in the skin.

@ Tattoo junk : If the flite still hits softer with the hardest bar, does it hit hard enough? Are you referring to the hardest spring bar that comes with it, or the rigid bar that's sold separately?

Is there something "special" about the thunder that I'm not aware of? Does it work like any other high end hard hitting direct drive? Or did they find a perfect sweet spot for speed/torque?

[Dreviltattoo]

i have most of these and have had all of em. I like to use one machine so for me the thunder works best. the spirit is blendy with a 3mm stroke but it snags if you have too much needle hang and just doesn't have the punch for lining. flite is good and yes has options but i'm not breaking it down in the middle of a tattoo to change the way it performs. I've had the stylus and it's cheap because the parts are cheap. the motor prob cost $10 bucks and it has a side load which it wasn't designed for. The thunder has a 4mm stroke and i don't think it hits too hard. Just hang your needle less for blending. it's not rocket science here. It's up and down consistently without any hiccups.
like Franco talks about, you have muscle memory. So using a machine that always performs the same will make you perform your best and you can rely on your own technique rather than the machines adjustment. I am however considering the inkmachines solely on the wireless factor and i would still use ttechs and hawk grips and little to no give.

[poleson]

I havn't used either machine and am still on the fence.

Since we don't have an autoclave, and i don't want to pay for Cheyenne needle$, I have to go disposable. Now that bishop has the vice adapter for the hawk and a few companies offer disposable cart tubes I have come around to the idea.

I have gone back and forth between the thunder and flite v2.1 vice.

Nobody has ever said the Thunder isn't a great liner and color packer but it's its ability to layer soft light greys and delicate color blends that I question.
I have heard you have to adapt to the thunder and once you have you can generate soft blends. My hand speed is already very fast but I have been using a hefty amount of give on my rotary shaders, especially for smooth b&g.

On the other hand I have no doubt that you can set up a soft shader with the flite v2.1 but how does it line and pack at that same setting? I'm not going through the hassle of switching it over mid-session.

My final thoughts are that if you can't use one machine for the cartridge system it kinda defeats the purpose. Maybe there is no machine that can do it all without adjustment but I think I have sided with the Thunder.

[cagelavey]

The thunder does it all, lines color packs and throws in soft Grey's. It truly does it all. I have a spirit also and yes the spirit does some awesome grey blends and probably a bit better than the thunder if put under a microscope, who knows. All I can tell you is that since I got my thunder I've barely even popped the spirit out of its box. I can honestly say you wouldn't be disappointed in the thunder one bit! This opinion isn't in comparison to the flite 2, I'm in no way saying that the thunder is better than the flite or visa versa. I think whether you go with the flite or the thunder you would be happy with either, they both in my opinion are two of the best machines on the market. Yes the flite had more options but since I received my flite I found the setting I liked and haven t changed it once since, so in essence I use it the same way I use the thunder. I've heard that there is a learning curve using the thunder, I just haven't experienced that personally. I picked it up and had it figured it from day one, no problem. Buying the thunder was the best decision I've ever made. I got the flite after the thunder but enjoy it just as much, I have nothing bad to say about either, both are the best machines I've ever used.

[Tattoo junk]

This is great info.

I think we can all agree that the flite v2.1 has more bells and whistles, but I'm searching for a comparison of how they feel in the skin.

@ Tattoo junk : If the flite still hits softer with the hardest bar, does it hit hard enough? Are you referring to the hardest spring bar that comes with it, or the rigid bar that's sold separately?

Is there something "special" about the thunder that I'm not aware of? Does it work like any other high end hard hitting direct drive? Or did they find a perfect sweet spot for speed/torque?



Sorry poleson i completely overlooked the question here meant for me.


i try to explain it as the way i expirience it...


i got the flite combo.


in my post i meant the hardest spring (red flex bar) that comes with the flite...compared to the thunder the flite feels kinda springy and even more with ttechs, after using the thunder for a while to me its a lil of a uncomfortable feeling (it feels like a lil give ) but dont get me wrong it gets the job done for sure, for give users it might be easyer to get used to the flite than to the thunder.
the thunder feels strong sharp and precize it just rams it in and your touch hand needs to controll the power of it.


does the flite hit hard enough? : well the motor has power enough but hardest flex bar makes it backoff again.


For now i prefer the thunder over the flite, but i need more hours with the flite, i tried all the bars and cams that came with it but i really disliked the soft ones and the shorter cams
i need to buy a rigid bar to see how that feels


Plus i feel that the balance is a lil high on the flite. (A matter of getting used to) but didnt feel as comfortable as the thunder


Iff you are used to (rotary give) then the flite hits hard enough for sure.


Is there something special about the thunder? : i think the cam has the good amount of weight and shape and the motor has the good power and torque.
the overall feeling is solid.
but there are allot of people that dont like the thunder so its a matter of taste and "can you adjust to this machine"

[poleson]

Sorry poleson i completely overlooked the question here meant for me.


i try to explain it as the way i expirience it...


i got the flite combo.


in my post i meant the hardest spring (red flex bar) that comes with the flite...compared to the thunder the flite feels kinda springy and even more with ttechs, after using the thunder for a while to me its a lil of a uncomfortable feeling (it feels like a lil give ) but dont get me wrong it gets the job done for sure, for give users it might be easyer to get used to the flite than to the thunder.
the thunder feels strong sharp and precize it just rams it in and your touch hand needs to controll the power of it.


does the flite hit hard enough? : well the motor has power enough but hardest flex bar makes it backoff again.


For now i prefer the thunder over the flite, but i need more hours with the flite, i tried all the bars and cams that came with it but i really disliked the soft ones and the shorter cams
i need to buy a rigid bar to see how that feels


Plus i feel that the balance is a lil high on the flite. (A matter of getting used to) but didnt feel as comfortable as the thunder


Iff you are used to (rotary give) then the flite hits hard enough for sure.


Is there something special about the thunder? : i think the cam has the good amount of weight and shape and the motor has the good power and torque.
the overall feeling is solid.
but there are allot of people that dont like the thunder so its a matter of taste and "can you adjust to this machine"
That's the best comparison I've read yet. Thanks Tattoo junk! I think you covered it.

[Tattoo junk]

You are welcome, iff something pops up ill be happy to help out.

[hellraiser6662]

I've got 2 flitev2 and I've always use the soft bar with 2.5. And second one is set hard bar 3.5. But how does the give work then? Does anybody know the theory behind it? As the springs don't move in and out. And if they did it would only be on the up stroke the down stroke would compress any spring. So if you have a Flitev2 put your finger lightly at the end of a mag cartridge can you feel any difference between the hard and soft bar? It's always made me wonder.

[poleson]

I've got 2 flitev2 and I've always use the soft bar with 2.5. And second one is set hard bar 3.5. But how does the give work then? Does anybody know the theory behind it? As the springs don't move in and out. And if they did it would only be on the up stroke the down stroke would compress any spring. So if you have a Flitev2 put your finger lightly at the end of a mag cartridge can you feel any difference between the hard and soft bar? It's always made me wonder.
I would have to theorize that the only way it could work would be if the spring bar bends on the down stroke as it resists the skin. I would also assume that the softer the bar the smaller the wire gauge, so it would bend even easier. Just my thoughts since I have never actually played with a flite.

[Tattoo junk]

I try to explain what i (think) is going on with the spring and bar on the flite...And that is that when it runs the cam is running ahead of the spring and bar, so there is a flex (it push and pulls so theres no constand solid linear force downwards or upwards) only linear when the cam is in the highest position and lowest position, but between that there is a flex to the point its linear again and thats what makes the hit damped and how much flex there is is diffrent on each bar that came with the flite, and when it stands still its linear again and when you push on the needle it feels solid on every flex bar (offcourse) there is no space between the coils of the spring so no up and down movement...

This is not proven to be a fact so correct me iff i am wrong, this is just what i think whats going on with the flite

[Dreviltattoo]

i wonder if it stalls on the wait out of the skin. this is beyond my mechanical knowledge.

[Tattoo junk]

i wonder if it stalls on the wait out of the skin. this is beyond my mechanical knowledge.

What does stalls mean???

[B.C. Smith]

I've used a Thunder for about 2 years, mostly with T-Tech Needles. I think it's the best machine I've ever used, but it had broke twice on me, once due to bad threads near the motor where the piece just above the grip screws on (Loc-Tite) fixed this great) however the second break was the Plunger bar actually separating from the motor...this really sucked. I could not get the motor shell to open, but I glued the bar back in too...although I've been too afraid to try and use it on a customer since fixing this last time. Cheyenne is the worst when it comes to warranty, they instantly void your warranty if you use anything but official Cheyenne carts. The only way I can really see them telling is the way their carts are sealed, and if you overly dip your machine when washing out colors, there is a chance to backup fluid into the barrel, which in turn at such high velocity and speed like the motor is moving does have a chance of spitting into the motor even if very slightly, they claim to be able to tell. and to fix your machine you have to pay them $50 and send it to Germany, only to have to wait and see if they will tell you they are not going to fix it because of the carts you use. One site even said that you have to buy so many boxes of their needles each month to maintain a warranty with them.

I was in love with the THUNDER, even have the official power supply, love the constant running with one click of the foot pedal. But after the issued I had and knowing I would never have them warranty my gear, I decided to buy some FK Irons machines.
I purchased a DIREKT which I absolutely enjoy using, not a Thunder, but not bad by any means, no Give and solid as hell with the 4mm stroke (makes it run closer to the Thunder) I barely used the Halo, but decided to sell it to a friend next week, and I'm buying a Flite v.2 in the next few days. Definitely going with the combo because I already Own 2 Cheyenne grips, most likely picking up the ridged bar too. If I ever get a second one, I will use a softer bar with that one.

My main point is, Its hard to spend the money on a Cheyenne knowing that you are going to have no warranty or are going to void the warranty on day one. Plus the awesome plunger bar system an open nature of not having to worry about any backup or spray possibilities in the motor just seems like a great idea at this point for me. I love cartridge Needles, at this point, I don't ever see myself going back to conventional needles. They work great and are super convenient to use. the extra money is well worth it in my opinion.
hope this helped, good luck making your decision.

[Dreviltattoo]

What does stalls mean???
pauses or lags like it waits a split second because of the spring loading and unloading.

[Sonictattoos]

so far on the V.2 the rigid bars have been hands down the way to go. Tried the different springs and never was fully happy using them. With the rigids so far so good