my fresh tattoos look mucky as fuck!!!!

[zack_fa1r]

im getting angry/upset at the fact that every tattoo i do in colour looks fucking horrid to me when its fresh, mucky, bloody and a lot of highlights just blend in until healed.
i can't get the almost healed look at the end of a session like i see others can, it doesn't matter if i use curved or m1's, give, more or less depth than usual, or even tryna slow down....that results me just going back to a very fast hand speed that i have.
I'd do consider myself fast, probs the quickest out of 9 of us in our studio. they all say I'm brutal... and need the least amount of touch ups.
its defo my technique, I'm wondering what anyone on here can advise me on, I'm self taught with no coil machine experience, so rotary always apart from lining.
i know overworking the skin causes this and i can tell when I've gone heavier than normal, but can't seem to pull away from it when i do.
its really getting to me as i have my second convention coming up in march and i don't want to feel paranoid about this.

anybody????????? thanks.

[reigningink]

With your fast hand speed you may actually be irritating the skin by moving too quickly while the needle is still in the skin. This can cause you to get that swollen, red look even without chewing up the skin. if you are using a thick pigment you may want to try using a thinner brand. The saturate a bit quicker and may be able to keep up with your more ..... vigorous ... style of tattooing.

[nivek]

Have you tried using witch hazel wipe when you're done ?

[zack_fa1r]

yeah witch hazel hasn't helped, i can see the muckyness instantly, I'm pointing the finger at my hand speed for trauma, i use decent size 12 needles so that shouldn't have any input.

any effort i can make to help reduce this? needle hang? less or more give? I'm on a long stroke with my gen8, gone from using a bishop 4.2 in the past.

[reigningink]

Have you tried a bit less throw? The longer the travel the more force the needles have when the hit the skin. This force can cause excess swelling and trauma. That mixed with a fast hand possibly moving the needles sideways while the needles are still in the skin can be a double dose of irritation. If you were using coils you would likely need a set up with a higher duty cycle, that way the needles spend less time down in the skin and more time up. That would fit well with your hand speed. I figure that with the longer stroke rotaries they are likely running a bit slower and especially with the whipping action of the gen8, likely spend a bit more time in the skin and that is likely what is causing your issue. So perhaps try a shorter stroke machine, and try slowing down your hand speed a bit. As far as more or less needle hang, that is up to you. I will typically have alot of needle hang when I'm moving slower and make single pass solid fill. Less hang for layers, blends and washes with a bit faster machine speed. Hope it helps.

[tatu richie]

use shorter stroke when coloring and bng

[nivek]

I used to have HELLA hang - with switching to rotaries I had to change that, I found that turning it down and having a nice 3.5-4 stroke with not a heck of a lot of hang, really helps me slow down, oddly it made me tattoo faster. I run my machines much lower than others seem to (not all), and it makes you slow down your hand speed, it also allows smoother blends more first pass tattooing.

[zack_fa1r]

ok so.....last time i used shorter strokes like 3.5 i had consistently bad healing, i was well overworking the skin.
thats why i went for the longer ones.

i was always told lots of hang on rotaries compared to a coil helps, guess ill ignore that for now then thanks.
so ill try less hang and more volts next time (the volts only change the speed on the gen8 and not the force), maybe just a little give in there????
if that doesn't work i might go try a diff machine like a neotat 2.5 maybe?? with no give

appreciate the input on this. thank you.

[fkirons]

Lower Your Machine speed drastically and crack up voltage until you see you are getting somewhere. Watch how you are laying the color and rethink your technique. You are less prone to over work the skin with a slower machine and this will also allow you to slow down your pace and what what you really do with every hand swing.

This used to happen to me in my early attempts to realistic tattoos. I realized that a slower machine did the trick for me and I was able to actually see what really went on with my tattooing process and how to avoid irritation and overworking the skin.

Fast is only good if you can control every needle poke to the skin.

Be careful with your bugpins and curve mags. Switch to #12 medium to long taper and take it from there.

Skin is not a canvas, It's an organ, and we have to be careful with it.

Hope this helps


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[zack_fa1r]

thank you, i have found long taper needles do less irritation for me, i never use bug pins,,, always a size 12.
i seem to overwork the skin easier with a curved mag rather than an m1, but an artist in the shop who does colour realism swears by curved, I've watched him work and asked questions but he can't seem to help me. ill update this in a few days after I've done some pieces and se how i go on, thank you all so much.

[jtattooer]

What pigments are you using? Could you post an example of a tattoo you're unhappy with?
I'm also a very quick tattoo artist. I use to kinda have the same issue about 7-8 yrs ago. Tattoos would look good healed. Just could never get a good photo when fresh.
Do you ride to tube a lot, and do line the needle up flush with the tube? What size mag do you use most commonly?
For me. I'm as basic as it gets. I like 7m and 15rm. I use to use a big variety. This is just what works for me.
I use a 7m most. I find it works well for color and BNG. I like the long taper. When I'm packing color. I will lightly ride the tube, working in small tight circular motion. Or in a scrubbing back and fourth motion. Then as I want the edge the be softer I work more of the tip.
When i can still see the pores of the skin but still have a nice field of color over it. It heals nicely.
If the skin is all red and pissed off. It could be that your irritating it by moving your hand speed too fast. Or if your tubes have a sharp edge in the tip, that could also cause it.
I still use metal tubes.
This is just my .02 and what works for me.
Oh and stroke length I like 4mm for lining. And I like 3-3.5 for color. 2.5 for bng.
I use mostly fusion colors.


Sent from Uranus

[Boogie]

Big help with coloring tattoos is Macedonian Magic Tattoo cream - it is not like other creams - I can write and it will look like advertise but i will not do that - just try it I think that the guys for start give free sample to try.


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[Panos tattoo]

i would say gastons and richies advice are the best options to try first.try first with a shortstroke machine like 2.5mm.it has a faster motion (not needle speed) as an in and out and it hits softer.this way you can maintain most of your hand speed but you will have to build color and shades.gastons approach on the other hand will obblicate you to slow down but each poke will put ink or pigment efficially thas make you tattoo faster because it will be a one pass poke.
with a gen8 i noticed that giving more volts changes dramaticaly the stroke especially with weights on.so keep in mind that even if its a 3.5 stroke (if i remember well) wou may end up with 4+ stroke when you add give and speed.

[zack_fa1r]

jtattooer, i use fusion and electric ink for colours, euro sum for grey and black lining. yes i ride the tube all the way when using mags but never for lines so this may contribute to the redness, i have tried to hang the needle more but i just go too deep cos of my hand speed, i can't show an image on here as i won't take a pic if it looks too mucky or irritated. oh and panos i tend to have better results on healing with a longer stroke so I've never tried a 2.5, the last time i used a 3mm for some blending it healed real bad with scabs so i must have overworked it loads. my gen 8 is around 6mm at just over 9 volts, that thing is long man.

[hellraiser6662]

Perhaps its not to do with hand speed or anything. If you are making things dirty looking at the end but it heals good? Whats the worry? Them photo tattooists there work is shit when it heals great for the photo but thats about it. Perhaps you just need some colour theory the video russ Abbot does is great for that because you might be making things dirty because you are using the wrong colours together. ... when I first used to airbrush my work look dirty cartoon characters looked they had been down a coal mine so I have a rethink then started to used candy colour for the darker tones then the work improved over nite...

[zack_fa1r]

hey man it makes sense that but its only when i wipe other colours over each other, say pale blue, and mainly white...my blacks get a hazy glaze over them making them appear like a dark grey, which points me to overworked skin cos the other colours should just wipe off and not leave any trace, sucks so bad.

and yeah allot good fresh pieces lack contrast once healed, see it everywhere, sadly i don't always get to see healed pieces which is why its so important i try figure this out.

[przink]

Like FK Irons said....think of the skin as an organ. Riding the tube causes a lot of unnecessary trauma to the skin. I have a fairly quick hand myself....often have to remind myself to slow down. Fusion is a pretty thin pigment. I like Alla Prima as well. They have some really nice colors that flow really well. Are you using carts? Are you having issues getting the pigment in fast enough...there are soooo many things that could be the culprit.

On a side note, I know Jason Ackerman said he tried to make the skin look like smooth cookie dough. To me that is overworked...but his work is pretty solid.....so different tech for different artists.

Best of luck. Send a pic if you could.

[inkinwi]

He didn't say smooth cookie dough for the skin.. what he said was he packs the pigment in so thick it looks like cake batter under the skin. He's talking about heavy saturation.