Cheyenne Hawk Pen Failure

[tnglc]

I got my Hawk Pen in Wednesday. Ran it about half an hour that day. Was off yesterday but put about 6 hours on it today grinding out work with the quickness. Started my last tattoo of the night on the apprentice, ran two lines and the Pen went down. Could tell the motor was still running, but the drive bar was staying retracted 100% of the time.
So, I have 15+ years machinist and maintenance experience prior to my tattoo career, mostly working with tolerances of +/- .0005 inches. I also run a small CNC shop here at the house. Figured I would take the guy apart and see what happened. SO here's the deal:

The drive bar mechanism is wonderful. I am astonished at the engineering of it, and with my past experience I would not change a thing about it.
But obviously the problem is deeper than that.
The working mechanism is three pieces, I will call them disc, bearing and offset shaft. The offset shaft is essentially a piece of rod with a hole drilled at an angle through it to set it at an angle to the motor's spindle. It is pressed into the bearing and the two of them into the disc. This assembly is also nice and I would not change a thing about it.
Now the issue, the offset shaft is simply pressed onto the motor spindle. When put under any duress it will spin freely on the spindle as there is no set screw, breaching, keys or anything to prevent it from slipping. After measuring the motor's spindle and the hole in the offset shaft it is apparent that the tolerance is not tight enough to hold up over time and pressure. There are a couple solutions to this problem, one of which I am going to test tomorrow and see how well it holds up. This is something any user can do given the correct instructions which I will post if it is effective enough to put my name on. The other option will require some machining on my end and would not be possible for most users as it is micro machining.

I will update you all as I experiment a little in solving this issue permanently. I personally feel Cheyenne engineers dropped the ball on this one. It is a great machine, lines and handles well, but if it doesn't hold up, well....its trash.

[asA]

I've seen a handful of people complaining of similar issues.

[Patrick]

Considering how freaking expensive this machine is, this seems like an issue that should have been addressed and fixed during the r&d stage of development. Don't get me wrong, I love my Thunder. But this machine seems a bit rushed and not much of an improvement on previous Cheyenne models.
Lame.
I'll stick with my stylus.

[tnglc]

I will say that the over all engineering is nice quality, and the machine runs very nice. I was almost able to line as fast with it as with the same groupings in a coil. The ability to change the angle of the mag groups without affecting the balance of the machine also speeds things up (shading off of left hand lines being a righty feels and looks much smoother).

I ordered expecting a little trouble, but something IMO that is this stupid was unexpected. Friction based attachment does work, but in this instance it is not the appropriate form of attachment. After a little more thought last night I believe they wanted to avoid a balancing issue caused by putting a set screw in the offset shaft. If that is the case, I mark it in my book as plain lazy. If they just didn't think about it, plain ignorant. I just have a hard time accepting that they made such a huge mistake.

[tnglc]

I used an adhesive for tool and die making that is similar to JB Weld, only thinner and removable on the motor spindle. Works fine now. Given the strength of the adhesive, I would say I will no longer have this issue as it is technically a chemical weld. While I used Masterbond EP21AR which is not the easiest stuff to source, I would suggest using plain old super glue if you encounter this issue. I intend on writing a walk through on machine dis-assembly and this repair soon.

[needlemaniak]

Thank you tnglc for these informations, very precise and helpful ! I now know that I won't buy an Hawk pen 😉


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[OwlsDen]

Hope you do make the walk thru.

[nivek]

Hope you do make the walk thru.

Or better yet the fix a pretty basic design flaw.. I wonder if the patent includes the flaw...

[MR-NME]

I bought the pen and a brand new version criticaltattoo power supply with kickstart feature and when I load a cheyenne cart of any size - it don't kick on until 11.5volts- and t-tech at 9.8 volts- this also is an issue and I know I'm not the only one this has happened to- I've heard it does the same with the cheyenne psu2- this should have been addressed before sales release wtf?

[darkness]

by a coworker its stopping working after 10min with cheyenne needles ,any was solving inside and the carts dont run -but you hear the motor running

[eduki]

Seems like we'll have to wait to the Lollipop version for the Hawk pen as the current needs an update :D :D

[tnglc]

Sorry I disappeared for a while. The epoxy has worked great. As afar as cartridges not starting up, make sure the grip is screwed out start the machine and screw it in until you have the right hang of your needles. Mine starts at 5.5v on an Eikon EMS420, no kick start. If the problem persists, look and see if the dive bar is moving at all. If it is use a q-tip and apply a small amount of pressure to the dive bar and see if it just stops. If it does just stop, this is the issue I had.

I have done several 6+ hour running time tattoos and plenty of bangers since my repair and have had no issues whatsoever. In fact I haven't even thought of touching my Thunders or coils since.

If I get a chance this week I will tear the machine down and show you guys how to perform the repair. At this point I would say plain super glue (cyanoacrylate) would perform very well. At least it is a cheap fix readily available and the repair is easy as can be.

[tnglc]

For those who can follow a text walk through:

Things you need:
Masking tape
Antislip drawer liner
Two pairs of vice grips
Glue
Patience and time

1. remove grip from machine
2. remove both rubber o-rings from machine
3. wrap the flat section between the o-ring slots tightly with drawer liner
4. wrap several layers (10-15) of masking tape tightly around the liner
5. on the mid section of the body wrap the same way
6. using vice grips on the tape loosen the dive bar mechanism from the body
7. do not remove it entirely yet
8. wrap the upper section of the body the same way as the other two
9. loosen the middle section from the upper section
10. by hand remove the dive bar mechanism
11. remove middle part of body
12. you should now see the motor shaft and bearing assembly
13. pull the bearing assembly off of the shaft
14. clean the motor's shaft and the hole in the bearing assembly with alcohol
15. place a small drop of glue to a toothpick and use the toothpick to apply a small amount INSIDE the TOP of the bearing assembly
letting a small amount run down the hole
16. press bearing assembly back onto shaft
17. Clean excess glue from the top of the shaft let dry 24 hours
18. Screw the middle section of the body back onto the machine and tighten
19. (the tricky part) start the dive bar mechanism back into the machine
once you have a couple threads in, plug machine up and start it (this is a MUST)
20. While running screw the drive bar assembly all the way in
21. turn machine off and tighten all components

You can use threadlocker (blue) during reassembly. Do not use red.
While you are at it, use some superlube to lube the drive bar assembly

Tips: When wrapping the masking tape, pull it as tight as you can.
Masking tape and antislip provide protection from scratches, do not skip this if you want your machine pretty
when setting tightness on vice grips, only apply enough pressure to grip the body, too tight and you'll warp the body or crush it.

Use common sense, I am not responsible for your actions. If you aren't sure you can do this, don't try.
If you would like me to do it for you message me at [email protected] with repair request as subject.

[MR-NME]

so i found out that cheyenne sent out machines with the wrong adapter cords--- if it says "for use only with cheyenne hawk machine" its the wrong cord-- they sent me a new cord adapter that says " for use only with cheyenne pen machine " and now my pen starts "with my critical tattoo supply that has kick start enabled, at minimal volts maybe 3 to 4 volts!! with cheyenne or tech carts... awesome all fixed

[Bishopbyname]

so i found out that cheyenne sent out machines with the wrong adapter cords--- if it says "for use only with cheyenne hawk machine" its the wrong cord-- they sent me a new cord adapter that says " for use only with cheyenne pen machine " and now my pen starts "with my critical tattoo supply that has kick start enabled, at minimal volts maybe 3 to 4 volts!! with cheyenne or tech carts... awesome all fixed

Aha! That is the issue with mine then too! Where did you get your replacement cable from?

[fkirons]

I've heard that if you remove the chip in the back the problem is solved



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[MR-NME]

I just contacted cheyenne---- the guy said if my cord adapter said hawk only , then "it was broken" and he sent me the new cord adapter free. Now it starts up at like 3 volts-

[Ofeloner]

I've heard that if you remove the chip in the back the problem is solved



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When is the Fkirons pen machine coming out??. :)

[MR-NME]

I agree 👍 Fk pen ? 😜 gaston you make great products/ I use a lot of your tools.. I'd love to see what you would do with a pen-- I'm dying to try a edge out!! I have I think 6 halos already and some irons lol but not yet the edge:)

[Ofeloner]

Tnglc,,I sent u a message?.