Best rotary for black and grey

[Tattooalleypa]

Just as the title says I'm looking for opinions on what is the best black and grey clip cord rotary machine? I have tried a couple and am looking at HM La Pinta. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Frank

[Jesse Phillips]

Whats up Frank!
I keep coming back to my direct drive Metaxa Classic. A tube set with a shallow ammount of needle and the zero give seems to do something special for me. I think its more in how much needle hang and how you move your hand though. If you want I can text you a video of my setup.

[Zomb]

HM Santa Maria is probably suited better than the la pinta for smooth b&g. I think the stroke is longer on pinta.

[Jesse Phillips]

Does stroke even matter with no give machines? I mean, you can have 4mm of stroke and just hang out about 2.7 mm of needle and it seems to act the same as if all you had was 2.7 mm to begin with.

[Seanaskew19]

I own 3 HM machines. La pinta, Santa Maria and the adjustable DD. The La Pinta and the DD are capable of achieving great soft shading, depending on how you use them. They can also be used for some really good colour packing. The Santa Maria is a dedicated short stroke (2.5 i think) with a touch of added dampening, and therefore in my opinion is faultless for black and grey. I use mine every day.

[Zomb]

I agree with you Jesse phillips regarding stroke as i pretty much only use either a thunder or spirit or HM adjustable DD & carts for everything. All in the hand.. But the santa maria with trad setup is effortless & is a bit special for b&g. Romans machines are sweet.

[hellraiser6662]

Does stroke even matter with no give machines? I mean, you can have 4mm of stroke and just hang out about 2.7 mm of needle and it seems to act the same as if all you had was 2.7 mm to begin with.

I think you got the idea wrong. Even if its 4 mm stroke it doesnt act like a 2.7 mm stroke even if you only use that much of the needle. The stroke goes like this 4mm is for colour packing. 3.5mm is for colour shading and bng. 2.5mm is for lining and bng. The stroke is how far the needle travels on the cam , bigger the travel more punch the needle will have thats why some people have give which takes a little off the punch its no different to coils bigger the throw more punch. Also a heavy cam will do the same as adding more to the punch or wieghts to a bar like the whip.

Does stroke even matter with no give machines? I mean, you can have 4mm of stroke and just hang out about 2.7 mm of needle and it seems to act the same as if all you had was 2.7 mm to begin with.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Jesse Phillips]

I think you got the idea wrong. Even if its 4 mm stroke it doesnt act like a 2.7 mm stroke even if you only use that much of the needle. The stroke goes like this 4mm is for colour packing. 3.5mm is for colour shading and bng. 2.5mm is for lining and bng. The stroke is how far the needle travels on the cam , bigger the travel more punch the needle will have thats why some people have give which takes a little off the punch its no different to coils bigger the throw more punch. Also a heavy cam will do the same as adding more to the punch or wieghts to a bar like the whip.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
No offense but just about the only thing there I agree with is that a longer stroke and a heavier cam is going to create more velocity. The rest sounds like the old dime liner nickle shader mentality, which I have never agreed with.

[Tattooalleypa]

Whats up Frank!
I keep coming back to my direct drive Metaxa Classic. A tube set with a shallow ammount of needle and the zero give seems to do something special for me. I think its more in how much needle hang and how you move your hand though. If you want I can text you a video of my setup.

yea please do bro
Frank

[hellraiser6662]

Well im am old school and got into a apprentship making needles, which most dont know how to do.. but every rotary machine built is on that 4,3.5,2.5 throw theory. If you dont belive it then thats why you stuggling in finding a bng machine. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160401/b82f808e0dffaed885e2725583d9be86.jpg But hay what would i know im old skool working with flitev2 at 15v 2.5 cam soft bar. If its choppy look at you hand speed and machine throw. Thats why bng machines are 2.5 not 4 ask any builder they will confirm that. To get smooth bng its matching your hand speed to the machine, using the right bng mix, the right machine speed, the right needles or carts, most importantly how you move your hand. Go on periscope add carl grace as a friend when he goes live doing a tattoo he will answer any questions about his tattooing.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160401/d0c39a0f330bdb1ea777ab8128a231b7.jpg

No offense but just about the only thing there I agree with is that a longer stroke and a heavier cam is going to create more velocity. The rest sounds like the old dime liner nickle shader mentality, which I have never agreed with.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Jesse Phillips]

I didn't say that I don't believe you, just that I disagree with you. Its not a contest.

[Tullin]

I have a La Pinta for sale if you wanna try one :)

[Tattooalleypa]

DM'd

[thesmokingmirror]

Go on periscope add carl grace as a friend when he goes live doing a tattoo he will answer any questions about his tattooing.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Pretty sure Carl Grace does plenty of Black and Grey tattoos using a 4mm stroke Hawk Thunder :confused: This contradicts your stroke theories

[chrilletattoo]

Pretty sure Carl Grace does plenty of Black and Grey tattoos using a 4mm stroke Hawk Thunder :confused: This contradicts your stroke theories

The owner of the shop I work do black and gray work only with a Hawk Thunder and she do supersmooth work all the time.

[thehebro]

I use a Bishop. I used a spektra halo for a while. One of my coworkers uses a neotat and the other uses a Hawk Pen.

[Seanaskew19]

It's all to do with what machine suits you, you could spend a shit load of cash on a number of machines that people have recommended and none will suit you. I was switched on to Roman's (HM) machines quite early after changing to rotaries so I was fortunate in finding machines that suited me quite quickly. I also use a halo on short stroke which works really well but I do prefer my HM machines for the softer stuff.

[hellraiser6662]

Pretty sure Carl Grace does plenty of Black and Grey tattoos using a 4mm stroke Hawk Thunder :confused: This contradicts your stroke theories
This is true but if you read my answer you got to start somewhere and the 2.5lining bng , 3.5 bng colour , 4 colour rule of thumb is a good place, otherwise you are just scatching in the dark. I use 2.5 flite soft bar for my bng with bugpin carts at 15v. But ive been on a 1to1 with bng artist and they used 3.5 bishop with 12s. Till i had a start point i too was frustrated with my bng, now im far more into it and then i can constrate on my hand speed and stretch to get it even smoother not only that each machine has its own is differences but again i say stick with it and learn the machine dont get carried away in buying every machine that comes out thinking it will make you good. Save your money and spend it on a art course that will make you better than any machine would do. 9/10 its the art skill that lets people down not the machine. Its pointless to say "oh my bng is shit, its all choppy and not smooth" when the art skill is crap and you dont understand value and tones. Because ive seen choppy bng which looks amazing because the artwork holds it self with tones and value.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Jesse Phillips]

This is true but if you read my answer you got to start somewhere and the 2.5lining bng , 3.5 bng colour , 4 colour rule of thumb is a good place, otherwise you are just scatching in the dark. I use 2.5 flite soft bar for my bng with bugpin carts at 15v. But ive been on a 1to1 with bng artist and they used 3.5 bishop with 12s. Till i had a start point i too was frustrated with my bng, now im far more into it and then i can constrate on my hand speed and stretch to get it even smoother not only that each machine has its own is differences but again i say stick with it and learn the machine dont get carried away in buying every machine that comes out thinking it will make you good. Save your money and spend it on a art course that will make you better than any machine would do. 9/10 its the art skill that lets people down not the machine. Its pointless to say "oh my bng is shit, its all choppy and not smooth" when the art skill is crap and you dont understand value and tones. Because ive seen choppy bng which looks amazing because the artwork holds it self with tones and value.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
I totally agree. Cheers man✌️��

[Heath]

I can do super smooth black and gray with a coil liner that's around 150hz unloaded just fine, an HM DD just fine, a Halo just fine, an Inkjecta 3.5 just fine, a Neotat Vivace 3.5 or 4.0 just fine, an Cheyenne Thunder/Spirit, and an Edge X just fine. It's not the Indian it's the arrow. There is no perfect machine nor stroke. It's what weight, vice, and machine you prefer. The rest of it is like asking what underwear we all prefer. They hold your nuts and do the job don't they? Seriously though, people get way too hung up on this topic and it's all personal. There is no best you'll eventually learn and opinions are subjective.

[nivek]

I use my Bishop 3.5 My swash 8 or Injecta Specific for b and grey - all three are interchangeable for me