Setting up my new Neotat

[Vallee]

Hello,
I have recently switched over from a very light rotary pen to the NeoTat. I want to make sure I am on the right page. I am a cosmetic tattoo artist, 90% of the work I do is medical restoration of the areola. Allot of these women have had radiation, always dealing with scar tissue, and keep in mind there are often implants (Breast). I have a few questions...

1) Long taper or Short taper? Why? (My goal is to cause as little damage to the skin as possible).
2) 7mag or 9mag? (Curved) #8, #10, or #12?
3) Running my power source continuously at 9?
4) Shepherd's loop (Top of needle) facing towards me or away from me? I have found this to differ on needles, does it matter?
5) Needles always below the needle bar?

[TattoosByRob]

Hey, I've found long tapers feel more comfortable to be tattooed with and require less force to put in, You will definitely get better colour saturation with a 9mag as opposed to a seven, Curved magnums give you a softer look and are easier to blend with than flat mags (in my opinion). The voltage you run your NeoTat at will depend on how the skin is reacting to the colouring, start off low and turn it up until it puts it in the way you need for that particular application, Running the mag on the bottom of the bar ensures that the needle rides as flush as it can with the tube........

[spoonertattoos]

This is a interesting quandary. On one hand here we have a perminate make up technician who is doing pretty important work as far as cosmetic surgery goes. (im assuming she dealing with breast cancer survivors) On the other hand the questions being asked are like first week tattoo apprentice level. I mean which way does the needle go? On the other hand she's not a tattooer so whats the protical on answering these kind of questions?


Vallee, you might find more response if you have us a little history on your background, experience etc?

[Administrator]

Cosmetic tattooers are trained very differently and Vallee may have been originally trained on a cartrige system like the hawk/neuvoux. that system is so proprietary they they will rename common needle groupings so they are not associated together.

[Administrator]

Also Vallee, please check this video out. It may be what you are looking for.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iETJVA7-LEE

Aside from her unique choice of machine barrier, this video is done by one of the more well respected cosmetic tattoo instructors and practitioners currently using a NEOTAT.

[Vallee]

Spooner- Thanks for making me feel so welcome. In fact, I've trained quite extensively with one of the most respected permanent makeup/paramedical restoration artists on the west coast. The reason I've asked the questions I've asked is that I haven't used a "traditional" coil-rotary machine because I haven't trained in a traditional tattoo artist atmosphere, though I would welcome the opportunity to learn techniques from a traditional tattoo artist.

I do appreciate the constructive feedback.

Thanks,
Val

[Alie K]

Hello,
I have recently switched over from a very light rotary pen to the NeoTat. I want to make sure I am on the right page. I am a cosmetic tattoo artist, 90% of the work I do is medical restoration of the areola. Allot of these women have had radiation, always dealing with scar tissue, and keep in mind there are often implants (Breast). I have a few questions...

1) Long taper or Short taper? Why? (My goal is to cause as little damage to the skin as possible).
2) 7mag or 9mag? (Curved) #8, #10, or #12?
3) Running my power source continuously at 9?
4) Shepherd's loop (Top of needle) facing towards me or away from me? I have found this to differ on needles, does it matter?
5) Needles always below the needle bar?

Which stroke neotat did you get? Sometimes voltages are different between the stroke models. I find the shortest stroke to give the 'softest/smudgiest' look (though for someone used to a long throw, it can take a bit to get used to), while the longest stroke can give you some really nice textures and can be the easiest to line with.

I prefer 7's or 5 mags (straight, not curved) to get nice saturation in small areas. Some artists find that a round shader can give them the best saturation (some prefer 11round shaders for larger work, where a 5 or 7 round shader can be nice for detail). You may need to experiment a bit to find what works best for you.

Do you have a supply company that you will be purchasing needles from? Some suppliers will let you buy needles in sheets of 5 instead of a full box of 50. That can be a good way to try things out.

[Vallee]

Thanks Alie K. I got the purple packer, NEO P = LONG Stroke Machine (3.5 mm) - PACKER. I will definitely check out the different needle configurations. I am mainly working in the "round", pointillism and shading where it is needed. it truly feels like I am starting graduate school with this new machine. A little intimidating, however I welcome the new education that comes along with it... I appreciate your .positive feedback.

[Vallee]

Just for the record... I have been in this business for 6 years. I am definitely not a baby. Just new to the Neotat.

[gravyray]

well the neo is not that different from most machines out there. you havent been in this business so as far as these machines and techniques ...you are a baby. you said you work with one of the most respected permanent makeup artist on the west coast, who might that be?? no ill intent here even though it will read that way,but this craft and industry is full of people scabbing tattoos and any info they can get. i would like to think this is not the case with you but i dont know either way. others are more open than me here ,but nobody handed me shit when i was learning and i feel the info that i have to offer is worth a lil background. ahhhh, maybe i jus need some coffee, have a great day

[slicksteel]

What made you switch to the neo tat, I also do eybrows sometimes and I feel the neo tat is a great machine but a bit heavy and cumbersome to use around the face.
I use the KP-96 and also there kp-78 & midas are very well made n plenty power. i feel the neo tat hits way to hard for the face area and can cause some damage. the Kp's and other top german made brands has some flex to the needle bar area. Altho the neo tat would be good for large burn camouflage areas and areola repair were it is harder to get the ink in and were the size & weight would help push the needles in.Think of the neo as another tool to make certain jobs easier.
http://www.kpmakeup.com/pmu/machines.html
Hope all works out for you.

[Vallee]

Hi Gravyray, I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to name drop with regards to my trainer, she was a surgical RN as well as a cosmetic tattoo artist at Cedars Sinai for many years. Most, if not all, of the reconstructive surgeons used her. I continue to take advanced classes on a yearly basis as part of my continuing education. Currently I work for five reconstructive surgeons in L.A. and Orange counties.

I have come to understand that the culture among traditional tattoo artists is to not be so open with advice or help and I'm not sure why. The same culture exists among permanent makeup tattoo artists as well and I just don't really understand it. Believe me, I am not trying to exploit the help and advice of those on this forum, but I am puzzled at this culture. My husband too is disturbed by this culture and he was a journeyman cement finisher and plasterer and trained in a trade school and a formal apprenticeship for three years -- so he understands traditional apprenticeship training.

I come here with the hope that people who are good, talented tattoo artists might have something to share. I thought that this was a place to come for help. Maybe I'm being too naive and idealistic to think so? My intention here is not to upset anyone, just looking for some good advice, constructive criticism, and a laugh or two.

[Vallee]

Hi, I do love the KP-96 and will certainly continue using them for quite awhile on the face. I am glad you said that. The Neotat was bought to work exclusively with para-medical, scar tissue etc..

[Mr.Taboo]

Hi Gravyray, I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to name drop with regards to my trainer, she was a surgical RN as well as a cosmetic tattoo artist at Cedars Sinai for many years. Most, if not all, of the reconstructive surgeons used her. I continue to take advanced classes on a yearly basis as part of my continuing education. Currently I work for five reconstructive surgeons in L.A. and Orange counties.

I have come to understand that the culture among traditional tattoo artists is to not be so open with advice or help and I'm not sure why. The same culture exists among permanent makeup tattoo artists as well and I just don't really understand it. Believe me, I am not trying to exploit the help and advice of those on this forum, but I am puzzled at this culture. My husband too is disturbed by this culture and he was a journeyman cement finisher and plasterer and trained in a trade school and a formal apprenticeship for three years -- so he understands traditional apprenticeship training.

I come here with the hope that people who are good, talented tattoo artists might have something to share. I thought that this was a place to come for help. Maybe I'm being too naive and idealistic to think so? My intention here is not to upset anyone, just looking for some good advice, constructive criticism, and a laugh or two.

Traditional tattoo artist are a bit suspicious of people asking what to us seem like the kind of questions that would be known by someone who had apprenticed , thus the Administrator stepping in to explain that a cosmetic tattooist has slightly different training. There have always been amateur home tattooers ( AKA scratchers , kitchen magicians ) but since the advent of the City Ink shows the number has exploded , just google tattoo kit or tattoo party and see what comes up. If you check the "Rants!" section you may find a thread or two about it.
And though I haven't seen it here I've been on other forums where there would be scratchers fishing for info , which you were mistaken for at first.
Once people realize you're a professional , just from a different aspect of our trade they'll likely be more at ease.

[Alie K]

The admin and I do our best to check everyone's references to see that they are a legitimate tattooer - that they work in a shop, that their website is easy to find online, that they have photos of their work - basically, that everything checks out and we don't see things like stolen images fluffing a portfolio. Sometimes people fall through the cracks, but we usually find them, or they are pointed out and they are removed.

Like Mr.Taboo stated, we've all seen hacked-up jobs that people come in asking for us to fix because they had it done at their buddy's place and he is "just starting out". It's frustrating - especially when they ask you for a price and they bargain you down to pennies because "tattoos shouldn't cost that much". Maybe they learned in prison, or from a video they bought online or downloaded from a torrent, or from watching someone else tattoo. I don't know if it's the same thing with cosmetic tattooing, but I'd want to pull my hair out if I constantly had people coming in with scarred-up eyebrows! No, that person who never served a formal apprenticeship and didn't take the time to learn how to tattoo correctly, or has no clue about a pleasing composition doesn't deserve an information handout. I think everyone is on the same page about that - but that's what we're up against, and that's why we're a little tight in the lip when it comes to certain things.

There is fierce competition in tattooing. Just when things seem to be going ok, you have a decent clientele, your shop is making ends meet, things are pleasantly busy, some scratcher comes into town and opens up a place doing tattoos that are truly sub-par, but because their hourly rates and shop minimums are priced well below yours, you begin to lose business. Sure the people who 'know' know better, but that drop in traffic still sucks. Our business is fickle. Our clients can be fickle. It drives me crazy when I'm booked up for a few days solid, and then the weather gets nice so people cancel, or they've shopped around for a "better rate" and then I'm scrambling to make up for those 2 zero days.

People might be more responsive if they saw the type of work that you did. I know that I tried to search your gallery on your website that was listed on your profile page, but I got the 'page not found' error. Is it broken? Maybe setting up some photos in your album on here (or occasionally posting them in a technique thread describing what you are doing) could be an eye-opener for skeptics. You know - ask a little, share a little.

[slicksteel]

tru alie i would like to know some permanant makeup techniques with the kp-96 to add to my bag of tricks!

[Vallee]

Got it, I totally understand. I have had to deal allot with others bad work. It particularly infuriates me when people come in with jacked up eyebrows and want me to fix them because they got a " great" deal?? As always you get what you pay for. Thanks for the heads up on my page not working- loading my photos. Unfortunately with Hippa Laws I am unable to post my areola work, however I could send some privately if need be, although I am sure it's not your everyday photo. I will definitly work on my photo page here on the forum. I have worked very hard both artistically and professionally. I do have a private office in a Doctors office and 90% of my work is performed in surgical centers. I am a freak about cleanliness. Thanks for clarifying things here I sincerely appreciate it.

[Alie K]

I was able to see one of the areola photos - I think it was the only one under "reconstructive" or some title similar to that. I enjoy looking at eyebrow work, eyeliner and lip work - I especially love seeing the 'several weeks later' healed photos. It's nice to see cosmetic tattooing that is complementary to the individual's skin tone (and not that horrible brown poop-lip outliner, or eyebrows that are strangely arched).

[Vallee]

I would love to show more of my areola work, I am just a little uneasy posting it publicly, out of respect for my patients. Is it possible to post them in a private room on this forum, and if yes, how? I would absolutely love constructive criticism. One of my reasons for being here (on this forum) is to get a "serious" opinion. Like anything there is always room for improvement. I just bought a Neotat, moving up from a KP-96. It feels like I went from a Honda to a Ferrari... I am excited about my new machine and looking forward to a totally new expierience.

[Administrator]

Any of the technique related sections are locked out from guest traffic. Also any attachments that are uploaded to the forum are not visible to guest traffic. If you want to know what is locked from the outside world you can log out and look at the forum. You will see pad locks as well as "private" listed. If you like we can also make a subforum dedicated to permanent cosmetics that is invisible unless you are a registered and logged in member. As far as I remember besides your self there is only one other cosmetic tattooer that has signed up for the forum since it started.

[Alie K]

I decided to make a subforum. It's in the techniques section. If anyone practices cosmetic tattooing and would like to make postings to either brag about how awesome they are or get some critiquing, they can do it there. It is INVISIBLE to guest traffic. They can't look at anything in there.
<3

[Vallee]

:):):)
well the neo is not that different from most machines out there. you havent been in this business so as far as these machines and techniques ...you are a baby. you said you work with one of the most respected permanent makeup artist on the west coast, who might that be?? no ill intent here even though it will read that way,but this craft and industry is full of people scabbing tattoos and any info they can get. i would like to think this is not the case with you but i dont know either way. others are more open than me here ,but nobody handed me shit when i was learning and i feel the info that i have to offer is worth a lil background. ahhhh, maybe i jus need some coffee, have a great day

[Vallee]

I am interested in someone talented, open minded, and most importantly a humble member on this forum. I am not a scabb (Offensive), I am looking for someone to help educate me in a few other areas. As a "Cosmetic Tattoo Artist" I work with woman who have had mastectomies re-creating thr areola etc.. I have been trained very differently then a traditional artist. I have moved away from a small rotary pen, to using a NeoTat, I am starting to figure a few things out, liking the ease of color getting into the skin. The questions I have are real to me, but I realize they may be no brainer questions to you.
What does it mean when people refer to "rotaries haveing no give" I dont know what this means? I imaginge, the needle to have no flexability.

[Administrator]

No reason to fight. You want to keep info about what you do and who you work in confidence. The intro section as well as many other sections of the forum are still visible to the public. You requested it and Alie created a section for MicroPigmentation discussion that is closed off completely to the public. IF you have these questions it beast to open dialog in that section. There is info that many artists here would like to keep proprietary from public view the same as you have requested.

If you open a thread asking these questions in the right area you might be more inclined to get an answer. I mean Zero Disrespect Vallee I am simply trying to help direct you out of talking technique where it should not be discussed on this forum. :) Start by clicking this link http://www.rotarytattoo.com/forumdisplay.php/49-Cosmetic-Tattooing-With-a-Rotary-Machine-*

[Inkslingers]

What made you switch to the neo tat, I also do eybrows sometimes and I feel the neo tat is a great machine but a bit heavy and cumbersome to use around the face.
I use the KP-96 and also there kp-78 & midas are very well made n plenty power. i feel the neo tat hits way to hard for the face area and can cause some damage. the Kp's and other top german made brands has some flex to the needle bar area. Altho the neo tat would be good for large burn camouflage areas and areola repair were it is harder to get the ink in and were the size & weight would help push the needles in.Think of the neo as another tool to make certain jobs easier.
http://www.kpmakeup.com/pmu/machines.html
Hope all works out for you.

"90% of the work I do is medical restoration of the areola"...so maybe the neo tat is EXACTLY what she needs..but I'm digging the subforum that was created and the path that Gravyray took.