BISHOP ROTARY

[polynesianworks]

saw this on world wide tattoo supply, does anyone own one?? looks pretty cool
http://i54.tinypic.com/16a39sz.jpg

http://www.worldwidetattoo.com/english/product/Bishop-Rotary-Black

[Administrator]

Very similar to the Neo-Tat (notice the needle clip?).

This is Franco Vescovi's rotary machine. This was rumored to be coming out for almost two years, debuted on myspace and was available through pre order only for while. I have not seen one in person but know he has used neotats and swash rotaries for some time. He has a technique video available through an airbrush magazine. Alie K. has the video and its shot very well. Its on the WW site so don't expect it to take too long before you see knock offs of these on eBay. Its fortunate this machine is made in the US so it will take longer for it to be knocked off.

[Dan Kubin]

what is that picture of on the side of the frame?

[gangstajay]

I know a female named latisha that was a customer of mine who moved out there and works under him.. she told me they were available... think there around 400.00 world wide tattoo supply is suppose to have them.. bet there nice.

[gangstajay]

my bad..I just hit the link... over 400.00 and out of stock.. oh well

[The Limey]

You can get them here (http://www.thepricksupply.com/collections/bishop-rotaries) at a much more reasonable price

[Administrator]

my bad..I just hit the link... over 400.00 and out of stock.. oh well

They where about $400 when I first saw them... wow they went up some on world wide. The US distributor Limey listed is much more reasonable.

[Alie K]

I dunno. If I'm going to try to get a machine that runs like a Neotat, I'll spend under $300 for a Neotat...

[blkngrey]

if you havent used the bishop then you cant make that decision!! i have a few diff rotary machines. from the dragonfly to the stealth to the neotat and all of them are pretty good. they all seem to work as great rotaries although the bishop and the stigma are my fav. both feel way better in the hand than neotat ot stealth and they seem to be more practical overall and a lil lighter. i have used the bishop since i recieved my order a month ago and i love it. super light and hits not too hard and not too soft. i have sold my stealth and neotat and only have the stigma and the bishop. i think the neotat looks and feels just a lil too bulky. but was still a fantastic machine overall. anyways just my thoughts..

[jstewart]

what we are talking about weight wise comparatively? between these machines?
j

[The Limey]

Looks like the the NeoTat weighs 5.6 oz and the Bishop 4.0 oz.

You can read more about the NeoTat here (http://www.taptatdaddio.com/) and the Bishop here (http://bishoprotary.blogspot.com/2010/09/bishop-rotary-technical-info.html).

[TATMATIC]

i have them in stock ...........now

[TATMATIC]

plus ive used many rotaries ... i like the bishop because of the wieght ... and its very consistent ... all 5 artist use this rotary we all have at least 2 each ....

[jstewart]

thanks for the info limey.
j

[blkngrey]

i would have to say its about 1.7 ounces heavier and a lil more side heavy like the coil machines as far as how the weight is balanced.

[The Limey]

OK, besides the obvious aesthetic differences and being a bit lighter, what are the differences, if any, between this and a long stroke NeoTat? The armature bar and needle clip look pretty much identical.

[rjdadio]

ditto.....

[TATMATIC]

mostly weight and size ......and it looks a hell of alot cooler

[TATMATIC]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs610.ash2/156206_1589504015742_1180085288_31406785_6229906_n .jpg

[gangstajay]

that shit is dope

[blkngrey]

besides the weight difference and the look the bishop seems to have an entirely different feel to the skin than the neotat. i heard the spring set up and strength is very different and the hit is exactly in between hard and soft where as my neotat hits way way too hard and i have to slow it down to not rip the skin. also the bishop is made by a tattooer in which i fully respect to the fullest. why would i want to support some company that is in it for the money and has no idea how it even feels to tattoo with a rotary cuz they arent even a tattooer!!!period!!! and the other rotary that i love is the stigma but it almost gets complicated trying to remember wich setting i put it on to soften the hit. and the customer service there sucks ass. i waited 3 weeks for an email response and i barely could understand the guy. just my thots...

[gangstajay]

hey blkngrey..if iam not mistaking the builder of the neo-tat is on this site... and he tattoos... So you would be supporting an artist..just taking a shot in the dark here but I dont think the makers of the swash drive does tattoo's.not sure... or the people who own tattoo supply company's I know for a fact that the owner of king pin tattoo supplies and diversified products in florida dont tattoo but we all support them... when you reading thru the post..the member that has the green neo-tat banner is the builder and he live in the us... I plan on purchasing each of them.

[TATMATIC]

the neo tat guy IS NOT A TATTOOER ...... see there is a diffrence the supply guys like bill who owns kingpin sell other peoples stuff ..... i do think that if a tattooer makes a machine it will come out a tad bit better ...." because he uses it and makes changes " he feels the pro's and con's .... my opinion....

[TATMATIC]

....ray webb is his name .... a machinist....

[gangstajay]

I agree with you on both of those points with anything in the industry... tatmatic..iam going to get a bishop and a neo tat.. I have 2 swashes and a few stealths..shit I had 20 coil machine's from alot of good builders..liked them all

[slicksteel]

try the rapiers cary is a working tattooest and loves eventing stuff as a hobby that turned into a biz.

[rjdadio]

I’ve been away for a few days working on projects for the better of our community and have not had time to chat on the forum, and I get on and see….. what I missed….

“besides the weight difference and the look the bishop seems to have an entirely different feel to the skin than the neotat.. i heard the spring set up and strength is very different and the hit is exactly in between hard and soft….”

Has he used a bishop machine, or is this just what he has heard?

“….my neotat hits way way too hard and i have to slow it down to not rip the skin.”

How fast and hard is he running the NeoTat to rip up skin?

“….alsothe bishop is made by a tattooer in which i fully respect to the fullest.”

A design that was copied by a tattooer who then changed the appearance of the design to then call his own.

“why would i want to support some company that is in it for the money….”

I would question this statement. The NeoTat was designed by a person who has made tattoo machines and equipment for many years, a person who saw a need to change the way tattooing was done, something that was better for the artist.

So,
Why not make clone machines smaller with less material while using less machine time but charge more money, like say $400.00 or a $350.00 deal?

I am a man who has designed and built many things over my many years of life but I don’t tattoo because I am not an artist….but I have tattooed and I do know how my machines feel. I don’t care if you respect me or not, because I know that I have developed a great product that many people enjoy using…..and now people are copying.
I suggest that this person look at the artists who use my machines and show them respect…..because many of you are damn good. And every one of the artists who use my machines bought machines. I didn’t just give them machines to use with a smile so they could say they use NeoTats. They use them because they like them, not just because it was a freebie.
Enough said…..

I would suggest that the folks at Bishop sharpen their pencils and bring the cost down before the Chinese out do them………

Myself, I’ve got other things to do like refine my new tattoo machines.

Ray

[elitexhunting]

tell em, ray!! you make an awesome product, and im a die hard neotat enthusiast!!!! i may not be able to see my toes but i can see you are a true innovator!!!

[Alie K]

I personally don't feel that this thread is going anywhere, except for bashing a particular machine. If anyone has read the forum rules, they would see that bashing or insulting anyone is not welcome here. If we are going to split hairs, let's explore a few more points before I decide this 'conversation' is over and close the thread. Reviews and opinions are welcome here but calling out a builder for not being a tattooer is a mute point.


besides the weight difference and the look the bishop seems to have an entirely different feel to the skin than the neotat. i heard the spring set up and strength is very different and the hit is exactly in between hard and soft where as my neotat hits way way too hard and i have to slow it down to not rip the skin. also the bishop is made by a tattooer in which i fully respect to the fullest. why would i want to support some company that is in it for the money and has no idea how it even feels to tattoo with a rotary cuz they arent even a tattooer!!!period!!! and the other rotary that i love is the stigma but it almost gets complicated trying to remember wich setting i put it on to soften the hit. and the customer service there sucks ass. i waited 3 weeks for an email response and i barely could understand the guy. just my thots...

So who actually manufactures the Bishop? Everyone's work and technique is different so one type of machine will not work the same way for every artist. Every rotary machine I have used has different qualities. Some hit harder, some have a give, some are better for black and grey, some are amazing for packing color. A different machine for different tasks. If you are unhappy with your neotat we have a buy sell section you are welcome to list it for sale and buy yourself another machine from another builder.


hey blkngrey..if iam not mistaking the builder of the neo-tat is on this site... and he tattoos... So you would be supporting an artist..just taking a shot in the dark here but I dont think the makers of the swash drive does tattoo's.not sure... or the people who own tattoo supply company's I know for a fact that the owner of king pin tattoo supplies and diversified products in florida dont tattoo but we all support them... when you reading thru the post..the member that has the green neo-tat banner is the builder and he live in the us... I plan on purchasing each of them.

The swash system is not manufactured by a tattoo artist and was not even invented by one. If you read the bio on the history of the machines it was developed and created by an ENGINEER. The Stealth is made in CHINA and is a copy of the swiss rotary, jury is still out if that was designed by a tattoo artist or not. The Neuma was an idea that a tattoo artist had, he still retained an industrial design firm to make it come together, the machines are not made or assembled by a tattoo artist. The Cheyenne Hawk is also another machine that is not made by a tattooer or even developed by one. A company in Germany that makes products for the permanent cosmetics industry makes and sells the Hawk. The vast majority of products you use from supply companies are not made by tattoo artist they are made for you. Unless you are buying every single thing you use day to day from a supply company like Lucky's you are not buying a product manufactured or distributed by a working professional. Who made your tips, grips, power supply and your pigments?


the neo tat guy IS NOT A TATTOOER ...... see there is a diffrence the supply guys like bill who owns kingpin sell other peoples stuff ..... i do think that if a tattooer makes a machine it will come out a tad bit better ...." because he uses it and makes changes " he feels the pro's and con's .... my opinion....

The machine is a tool that operates on the principles of physics its up to you to make it work better or worse for you. I am not interested in dragging other builders on here into this but if you do a little searching you will see requests for suggestions on what you want and how you use your machines in the best interest of making a better production machine. Kingpin also has their own line of machines listed on the site, so do Eikon and all the other distributors. The R&D department at Eikon makes changes to what they build based on input from the people that use their products day to day.


....ray webb is his name .... a machinist....

And an Inventor and an engineer with a long history of involvement manufacturing products for this industry, the cosmetic tattoo industry and the medical industry.


I agree with you on both of those points with anything in the industry... tatmatic..iam going to get a bishop and a neo tat.. I have 2 swashes and a few stealths..shit I had 20 coil machine's from alot of good builders..liked them all

The bottom line is people will vote with their own wallets. Jay if and when you get both the machines I would love to hear your opinions on them.


try the rapiers cary is a working tattooest and loves eventing stuff as a hobby that turned into a biz.

Cary is a working tattoo artist. Cary also works very closely with a very talented engineer who he respectfully gives a lot of credit to for making his machines run as well as they do. From my personal experience both Cary and Ray are very concerned with keeping customers happy and making changes to design based on feedback received from the artists who use these machines day to day. If not for the help of an engineer your Rapiers would not be anywhere close to what you are using currently (no offence Cary, just giving credit to your helper).

You use a rotary machine! This is not like a coil machine where if you wanted to tap and thread your own screws in addition to hand wrapping your coils you could or choose to buy from only builders who do. You cannot put that level of work into a rotary machine since you dont make your own motors.* The fight you should all be fighting is keeping the tools you use from getting knocked off in china and then buying from there because you can save a few bucks. Bishop, Neotat, Tattooed Pirate, inkjecta, swash, Dragonfly, blitz, Stigma, shagbuilt... the list goes on and on. All machines built in the country of origin and backed by good people who know how to make a good product regardless of if they tattoo full time or not.

*John Clarke is the only living builder I know of to have made a rotary tattoo machine from scratch.

[rjdadio]

Thank you,
and very well said.

[gangstajay]

I feel ya alie k.. this has turned into a bashing, and ray has a point ,you bet your ass there working right now on a knock off of that bishop ,they have done everyone else.. never had a real swiss rotary, but if that stealth is a cheap knock off.then I can only imagine what the real deal runs like... So hopefully in a few days I will have my 1st neo tat and then when the price on the bishop fall's and they make one with rca plug and different stroke's i will get one of them... Now yall play nice

[The Limey]

I don't own a Neotat or a Bishop but reading some of the posts and looking at the pictures its blatantly obvious that without Ray there wouldn't be a Bishop as there'd not have been a Neotat to clone.

Personal preferences are one thing but there is no need to make your dislikes personal. So, lets stop slamming individuals and use the forum as intended i.e. to share knowledge about the art of rotary tattooing and rotary tattoo machines.

[blkngrey]

Well damm everyone is so sensative!! I had to do a lil research to even respon to my last message in wich wasn't intended to fluster any feathers. I have came across quite a few rotaries and I will sum them up as one being a linear moving rotary machine like the bishop neotat stigma dragonfly blitz and the rapier to mane a few. And a few of these just have a small size chane in the linear slide but are all based in identical movement and physics. Second is the stealth type movements and the swissrotary as well as the shag built. In wich a motor moves a shaft like object attatched to a cam on the motor and the armature bar. And so did they all copy eachother? And the 3 rd type of rotary is the swash movement that the swashdrive uses as well as one of the stigma models and a few other manufacturers use. Did they all copy eachother? Or how about did Aaron Cain copy Jim dandy or any other pioneer in coil machines? The bottom line here is other machine builders use similar technology when building thei machine but still using custom designing just coil machine builders have been doing for decades. Also the true history of the linear oscilating rotary movement can be traced to mens electric shavers, electric hair cutters an mechanical toothbrushes. So I don't want to read any more bashing on machine builders. Alli k said it best. There are plenty of good and different rotarys used for many applications. Everyone I know has more than one coil. So why not more than one rotary!! Or do people like Ray and a few others feel like they invented this technology and therefore no one can come close to a simple theoristic design? I wonder if the first coil machine builder would be mad at and modern coil builder??? I think not!! So everyone and every rotary company (in wich there are more than 25 rotary companies) I wish all of you guys sucess and please stop bashing. It's very immature and we all are adults. And I know alot of supply houses sell a ton of things that they know nothing about since they don't tattoo, I still will always have a sour taste in my mouth when inks and machines are made from non tattooers. Just my opinion.

[TATMATIC]

sorry my opinion im not bashing ...the neo dude is bashing ... and alie ... shag "mike" makes very nice hand made rotaries ... http://www.shagbuilt.com/ ..

[TATMATIC]

i think in this time and place its really hard to impossible NOT to make a machine of any kind that looks like someone elses .... cant reinvent the wheel ...you can just make it look better...

[TATMATIC]

ohh and here's jack rudy's he just got yesterday

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd181/daveritchie/imagejpeg_2_4.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd181/daveritchie/imagejpeg_2_2.jpg

[TATMATIC]

OHH AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALLhttp://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd181/daveritchie/imagejpeg_2_5.jpg

[gangstajay]

is that a poinsetta flower..lol nice touch there

[Alie K]

Well damm everyone is so sensative!! I had to do a lil research to even respon to my last message in wich wasn't intended to fluster any feathers. I have came across quite a few rotaries and I will sum them up as one being a linear moving rotary machine like the bishop neotat stigma dragonfly blitz and the rapier to mane a few. And a few of these just have a small size chane in the linear slide but are all based in identical movement and physics. Second is the stealth type movements and the swissrotary as well as the shag built. In wich a motor moves a shaft like object attatched to a cam on the motor and the armature bar. And so did they all copy eachother? And the 3 rd type of rotary is the swash movement that the swashdrive uses as well as one of the stigma models and a few other manufacturers use. Did they all copy eachother? Or how about did Aaron Cain copy Jim dandy or any other pioneer in coil machines? The bottom line here is other machine builders use similar technology when building thei machine but still using custom designing just coil machine builders have been doing for decades. Also the true history of the linear oscilating rotary movement can be traced to mens electric shavers, electric hair cutters an mechanical toothbrushes. So I don't want to read any more bashing on machine builders. Alli k said it best. There are plenty of good and different rotarys used for many applications. Everyone I know has more than one coil. So why not more than one rotary!! Or do people like Ray and a few others feel like they invented this technology and therefore no one can come close to a simple theoristic design? I wonder if the first coil machine builder would be mad at and modern coil builder??? I think not!! So everyone and every rotary company (in wich there are more than 25 rotary companies) I wish all of you guys sucess and please stop bashing. It's very immature and we all are adults. And I know alot of supply houses sell a ton of things that they know nothing about since they don't tattoo, I still will always have a sour taste in my mouth when inks and machines are made from non tattooers. Just my opinion.

Yes, I agree with some of your points. Did you know that regarding rotary movement, electric shavers and toothbrushes were invented about 100 years later than Edison's engraving pen? ...and the oscilating mechanism or eccentric cam was used in steam engine locomotives in the 1800's! I think it's pretty innovative for anyone to take something of such a large scale and be able to shrink it down and be able to adapt it to a different use. (P.S.) Did you know the coil tattoo machine design was taken from a doorbell design?

Frankly, I have had several experiences with products made by tattooers for the tattoo industry that have left a sour taste in my mouth. I have learned that just because something is made by a tattooer, it doesn't mean it's good. I've thrown my fair share of those products away. Sure, there are the "Jack of all trades" variety out there who have their fingers in many pots, but those individuals are very few and far between. Sure, I know some amazing tattooers who don't know the difference between their, they're and their in a sentence (or the fact that there is a huge difference between a sentence and a sentance), I know some Tattooers who do nice work with the needles they solder each morning and inks they mix themselves (but don't mass produce), and I have met some eclectic inventors who are always thinking of new ways to make things safer and easier and are very enthusiastic about the industry, but have maybe only dabbled in the actual art of tattooing.

It doesn't really matter to me if someone makes a product for the industry that isn't a tattooer (like the gentleman who decided to make tatu-derm a reality for the many artists who use it). If you make something that is tried and true, awesome. You rock. There are exceptions to every rule.


sorry my opinion im not bashing ...the neo dude is bashing ... and alie ... shag "mike" makes very nice hand made rotaries ... http://www.shagbuilt.com/ ..

Yep, I'm fully aware of Shagbuilt machines. I hope I remembered to reference it earlier.


i think in this time and place its really hard to impossible NOT to make a machine of any kind that looks like someone elses .... cant reinvent the wheel ...you can just make it look better...

Yes, and though I believe that, I don't actually believe in the 'not reinventing the wheel' theory. There are so many products out there that have been improved upon or reinvented. Original airbags vs reduced impact airbags - same exact thing, except now people are less likely to get a broken nose or appendage when their airbag goes off - I know you get my point.

On that note,

This thread started out asking what the difference was between 2 machines.
So far, differences I have seen:
-Small weight difference
-Design/shape difference
-One has a choice of 3 machines with different strokes
-Made in their country of origin, not China.

Similarities I have seen:
-Needle bar movement(linear) and no need for rubber bands (same clip mechanism)
-Available in different colors
-The people who use them, are very enthusiastic about them

One machine is endorsed by a tattooer. Is he hands-on in the fabrication process or was his idea discussed with an engineer? Is he familiar with the other machine as well? The other machine has a long pedigree of artists using it for years, and is made by an engineer who has been inventing products for not only the tattoo industry, the permanent cosmetic industry, as well as the medical industry. Though he may have tattooed some pieces here and there, he does not consider himself a tattooer. Two different companies, two different machines. Slightly different mechanical setups which may make some differences in the way a tattoo is done.

I'd love to say that I own both machines, so that I can use them both on a daily basis and be able to discuss what I felt each model's strengths were. I don't. Maybe I'll get to hang out with someone who owns the other and has never used mine and we can swap for a while and experience both.

Yes, this thread started out with some valid questions, then got a little ugly at about the 20th post or so. That's not where I want the forum to go in any way, shape or form.

I truly want this to be a place where we can discuss questions, techniques, show off our work, brag about new machines we bought or have invented, buy, sell, trade... whatever. I don't want to see any negativity towards others, I don't want to see hurtful remarks. Just a bunch of us with the common interest of doing the best tattoos we can, and perhaps helping each other out along the way. K?

I think I can close the thread now. Let's start fresh. If you have more to say, you can PM me.