The dragonfly replica

[punkangel]

5475

just seen this on fleabay, starting at £199. looks like the real thing if it was'nt for the cut away to show the maxon motor. claims it is only 77grams

here is the link.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Tattoo-Machine-w-MAXON-Motor-Dragonfly-Replica-/280770185029?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item415f350745

[Mr.Taboo]

Yep seen these popping up . here comes the flood.

[OwlsDen]

If it is a copy of a dragonfly, chances are that Maxon is fake too. Just saying I wouldn't trust or quote any specs from a copy.

[slicksteel]

They do seem to be getting better at making fakes these days thoe. That prob is a fake motor to.

[Amoebadesigns]

The writing on the motor in that pictures looks too flat...bet it's Photoshoped on there :)

[Gabetexas]

WOW!!

"So WHY pay for branded products...generics are as good or even better - TRY this.

This machine is lighter than its leading competitors...ONLY 77 grams! Making it one of the lightest rotary machine better than Stigma & Dragonfly..."

[wildboy]

Maybe he has changed the motor and his margin is still ok for him he sells the knock off version without the Maxon for less http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Tattoo-Machine-Dragonfly-Replica-/280769468847?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item415f2a19af

And hey lets all post stuff like this and support the seller by bringing more attention to him on the forum I bet hes an upright guy who cares a lot about our industry.

I wonder how people would react if there was an offer on Ebay selling a rotary knockoff of one of the builders that are on the forum.

[JohnnyChaos]

well this forum already promotes the Stealth with it's user group and buttons... isn't that just a swiss knockoff? but no one seems to mind.

[wildboy]

true...

[fkirons]

No respect for anything... what's hilarious is that they claim that the motor has 500Watts. LOL that goes to show you how they don't know shit. With 500 Watts you could probably power a truck.

[fkirons]

I am afraid...

[otto]

seems like a patent has no reason these days..

[Nedz]

Paulo Cruze is selling this.

I know this guy he builds and sells coil machines all over the world and he is at most conventions in europe but has been trying to break into the rotary market for ages.
It will be a genuine Maxon motor as that the motor he has been working with and as he clearly says its a replica I thinks he's going to sell loads.

THE DRAGONFLY IS DEAD LONG LIVE THE REPLICA DRAGONFLY.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Tattoo-Machine-w-MAXON-Motor-Dragonfly-Replica-/280770185029?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item415f350745

(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Tattoo-Machine-w-MAXON-Motor-Dragonfly-Replica-/280770185029?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item415f350745)I reported the Chinese copy on Ebay and got a nice email back today telling me to report the item to the original manufacturer so Ebay don't care as long as they get their fees.

[MatFink]

(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Tattoo-Machine-w-MAXON-Motor-Dragonfly-Replica-/280770185029?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item415f350745)I reported the Chinese copy on Ebay and got a nice email back today telling me to report the item to the original manufacturer so Ebay don't care as long as they get their fees.
thats fucked...i also don't understand how/why you would skimp by so little when the quality of said device is what you rely on to make your living? at current exchange rates rrp direct from dragonfly is $529AUD. the bidding on this 'replica' is STARTING at $313AUD?

[andrewc]

remember though... Only SERIOUS buyers please, no time wasters. Any time wasters will be reported to EBAY i think serious buyers will get the real thing

[The Limey]

What gets me is that the majority here slam the Chinese for making knock offs but somehow we continue to post their shit... if you object so strongly why give them any air time at all?

[slicksteel]

You see what happens is the china sellers are smart crooks they let you spend all the time and money to devolop and promote a machine then they step when its become well know & make a copy and reap all the rewards off the builders hardwork.
I dont see countrys goverments stoping it or careing so i dought it will never end-just go to your local flea market and you will spot knockoff CDs, handbags, shoes & toys all day long.And that has been going on for the last 50 years if not more. You can all so go to any doller store and see bootleg toys everywhere. It will never stop.

[Ta2GeezerUK]

^^^ What Slick says!

[punkangel]

What gets me is that the majority here slam the Chinese for making knock offs but somehow we continue to post their shit... if you object so strongly why give them any air time at all?

I put this thread up to make artists aware, the fact that copies and rip offs are available so therefore avoidable.
Personally i would not buy one, whether it be good or bad. it is a copy, that would be manufactured for profit and NOT for quality, OK it may be lighter, it may have a maxon all singing all dancing power unit. BUT it has not had the cost and input of design, trial and quality ( it's like me putting top sharpz coils armature bar and springs in a Chinese Tdial and saying "it's better than the real thing"). This particular machine is now being sold buy many sellers without the maxon "It is a copy"! an that means replica (Copy)
I know that there comes a point when all things have the same basic movement and principles. and one or another wins out on design, weight and technical preference, but if you want your own built machine to be credited to you, then it surely should not look like another? even down to the needle glide device, spring tensioning, tube vice ect .
I for one appreciate the thought, foresight and investment, that builders on this forum or not, put into their machines, is paramount,
and foremost in quality, and design!

well that is my twopeneth worth anyhow if i am wrong, then i stand corrected and apologise for the post, but think i would like to know what is good and what is not out there, and for the record I would never buy from ebay

[Inkslingers]

Paulo Cruze is selling this.

I know this guy he builds and sells coil machines all over the world and he is at most conventions in europe but has been trying to break into the rotary market for ages.
It will be a genuine Maxon motor as that the motor he has been working with and as he clearly says its a replica I thinks he's going to sell loads.

THE DRAGONFLY IS DEAD LONG LIVE THE REPLICA DRAGONFLY.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Tattoo-Machine-w-MAXON-Motor-Dragonfly-Replica-/280770185029?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item415f350745

(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Tattoo-Machine-w-MAXON-Motor-Dragonfly-Replica-/280770185029?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item415f350745)I reported the Chinese copy on Ebay and got a nice email back today telling me to report the item to the original manufacturer so Ebay don't care as long as they get their fees.

Just curious..what do you mean you "reported" the Chinese copy on eBay? To who? for what?

[Alie K]

well this forum already promotes the Stealth with it's user group and buttons... isn't that just a swiss knockoff? but no one seems to mind.

I wouldn't say that the use of a Stealth is promoted (or encouraged, really). There are just a lot of people who have them, and if using them for a week until they break gets them to their computers to buy a 'better' machine, I wouldn't call that terrible. It IS one of the more popular 'starter' machines/intro to rotary machines.

I ordered a coil from Ebay, they threw in a stealth, I tried it, and now I have a drawer full of 'nice' machines. Sure, it's better to start off with something other than a Chinese made crap machine, but not everyone wants to invest a chunk of change into a gamble that many of their peers might make fun of them for. (You wouldn't believe the flak I caught when I bought my first few rotaries a few years ago) If you've never used a rotary, and none of your peers uses one, and they are all so different, you might give up if you have trouble with it, get rid of it, and then there would be no forum to go to late at night when you can't sleep and just want to find out some info on that odd machine you took a photo of at the last convention.

The only reason I keep my 'Stealth' button is for the occasional email I get asking for tips on it. I find it to be a nice public service to be able to say, "Yeah, I tried one for a little while, now I've found WAY better machines - try these instead!"

[The Limey]

I put this thread up to make artists aware, the fact that copies and rip offs are available so therefore avoidable.
Personally i would not buy one, whether it be good or bad. it is a copy, that would be manufactured for profit and NOT for quality, OK it may be lighter, it may have a maxon all singing all dancing power unit. BUT it has not had the cost and input of design, trial and quality ( it's like me putting top sharpz coils armature bar and springs in a Chinese Tdial and saying "it's better than the real thing"). This particular machine is now being sold buy many sellers without the maxon "It is a copy"! an that means replica (Copy)
I know that there comes a point when all things have the same basic movement and principles. and one or another wins out on design, weight and technical preference, but if you want your own built machine to be credited to you, then it surely should not look like another? even down to the needle glide device, spring tensioning, tube vice ect .
I for one appreciate the thought, foresight and investment, that builders on this forum or not, put into their machines, is paramount,
and foremost in quality, and design!

well that is my twopeneth worth anyhow if i am wrong, then i stand corrected and apologise for the post, but think i would like to know what is good and what is not out there, and for the record I would never buy from ebay

My only issue is that you don't need to be a member to read this so all we've actually ended up doing is giving these Chinese rip offs free advertising in a section that can be read by Joe public.

[Alie K]

My only issue is that you don't need to be a member to read this so all we've actually ended up doing is giving these Chinese rip offs free advertising in a section that can be read by Joe public.

It DOES help a little with SEO, but maybe I'll have a chat with the admin to see how he feels about making the mystery machines thread 'hidden' from the public, since there have been a lot of questions regarding what end up being ripoffs in here.

[Joe Hinkle]

Most tattooers have drawers full of coil machines that they may have used a week or less, that is how I looked at it when I purchased my first rotary. I looked into my drawer and saw the money I had wasted on many top shelf builder's coils, that I have used on only a handful of tattoos, and realized I had made much worse investments before. I was also afraid that a cheap rotary would have only detered me from sticking with trying anything more expensive if it weren't performing for me in the ways I expected.

[slicksteel]

I don't think the stealth is that bad of a machine-sure it is a knockoff but I feel one of the better made ones out there.I hav seen amazing work done with them.

[OwlsDen]

yeah, and i have seen people do great work with junk drawer machines cobbled together with whatever parts they had lying around. I have a stealth, it's ok. I have used it once. I do not know if i will use it again. I was able to take an interest in having better rotaries from it, and it did run pretty quiet at first. I would rather have the swiss.. I bet that machine is 10x better.

[slicksteel]

I had the swiss.It was by far not worth the way over priced tag.To me it was worth about 250.00 brand new.The thing is they made there invested money back and a large profit so now its time to lower the price to a reasonable amount. I think in the end it does not matter what you do the tattoo with as long as the tattoo can be done in a safe & clean way with proper healing.

[OwlsDen]

they go for about 150 - 200 euro here on eBay all the time. Granted that is still about 225-280$ ( the swiss machines not the copies )

[slicksteel]

The swiss is a well made machine and is great for color. kind of wish i had not sold it! lol

[wildboy]

The whole Swiss company is only 3 people and the produce in Europe so I dont think theyre able to lower the price much

[OwlsDen]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Firefly-Rotary-Tattoo-Machine-/170726312447?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item27c014c9ff#ht_1470wt_1149
<br><br>
Well the copy just went from clone to counterfeit.. Firefly? looks just like a dragonfly... sounds awfully shady..

[punkangel]

LOL! i checked the link, and looked at their other listings, and this is a quote that i just had to copy and paste, check out the highlited section. pmsl.

New Image Tattoo Supplies ( UK )
Lite Dial Red
The Lite Dial is a precision light weight machine, constructed from one solid block of aero aluminium and comes with heavy duty coils and brass components for constant smooth running. Suitable for lining or colour/shading.
New image tattoo supplies is based in Sheffield, England and has been supplying fine quality tattooing equipment for well over 30 years, we do not sell cheap, low qualityChinese machines, you get what you pay for and this does show in your work if you decide to use poor quality machines equipment!

[OwlsDen]

Maybe you should write them and ask where that machine was built.

[robinTS]

i saw a well know and one of the best coil machine builder(Paulo Cruzes) promoting this machine in his facebook,so i think is not a fake motor
so i am very disapointing with Paulo Cruzes,is a good builder he dont need that

[fkirons]

that machine looks cheap. It may look like the dragon fly but the finishes and hardware look low class. The motor must be super shitty.
To have a motor that small to run at least at 3.5 watts the motor must have a Rare Earth Magnet that cost money.
On top of that $150 euros is really expensive for a shitty copy.

I cannot believe how these people are just taking anything they want and making it theirs... Grrrrr

[No Iron Machines]

I AGREE 100% WITH GASTON...

ROBIN TS, 90 % of the machines from PAOLO CRUZES are made in CHINA man, him just done some HAND-MADE frame sometime, that's all, don believe to much on what people say

[robinTS]

I AGREE 100% WITH GASTON...

ROBIN TS, 90 % of the machines from PAOLO CRUZES are made in CHINA man, him just done some HAND-MADE frame sometime, that's all, don believe to much on what people say

i dont think that machines are chineses,but... http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=3

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=3#!/media/set/?set=a.1568994424148.2073586.1214078526&type=1

why should i believe in you!

[No Iron Machines]

HELLO

HAND-MADE FRAME : http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1994378458483&set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1996158062972&set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2096155162837&set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=3&theater

in this kind of frame, him just done the SIDE hand made, the base with tube vise is chinese, him just retouch little bit

100% CHINESE : http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2054418479446&set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2130310496699&set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1998826049670&set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=3&theater

ANY GOOD MACHINES BUILDER CAN SAY THE SAME AS ME MAN, ALSO U EVER TRY RUN A MACHINES FROM PAULO CRUZES?
i message with him some days ago, and i tell him why still done some staff in china for his machines, him start say a lot of strange things about this, him say that people don like china are racist, that everybody copy , him don believe in copiright, i tell him is not about this, is about that him sale his machines like HAND MADE in UK from him but they are full of chinese part, is not correct this, him reply that everybody done JAPANESE TATTOOS have copy from CHINA, becouse don exist dragonb in europe or america , him reply with totally differnt things, i just ask about machines, not about tattoos? him say next year gonna move live in shanghai becouse him love work with chinese, and bla bla bla....

SO, U STILL THINK IS ONE OF THE GREATEST MACHINES BUILDER ON THE WORLD ?

[robinTS]

yes i have custom made liner machine from him https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=271330106227175&set=a.153635341329986.31379.100000505630306&type=1&theater
al the links you have from facebook are not avaible,i cant open them,

but the machines i e saw at paulo facebook dont look chineses ,they are so beatifull and never saw copy of that machines on ebay,but,i dont know maybe you are right.
PS:nor hard feellings i hope you not angry with me

[No Iron Machines]

HELLO

im not angry man, he...he.... im sorry, but i don understand some of this kind of builders
yes him done some nice HAND-MADE but also some scrap chinese staff, when i talk with him some days ago, him offer to me buy the DRAGONFLY copy, so i tell him, hey man, u done machines, why u wanna sale a chinese copy ? him say that him change the chinese motor with a better MAXON, i say, ok, but still chinese copy, so him start say all the strange staff about him don believe in copyright, and all stupid things like that
i tell him , what u think that some other people copy your machines, look correct ? him say don care
i mean is strange way to think that u realy spend a lot of time on build machines
ok everything around the world is MADE IN CHINA, sure, but one thing is MADE, one thing is COPY , u don think the same?
that u buy NIKE shoes, inside have MADE IN CHINA, u know the NIKE is AMERICAN, rite ? that u buy PAOLO CRUZES machines u think is made from him in UK or whatever him live but not realy like this, this is what i don realy like

maybe im wrong, this is my point of view, maybe becouse i spend a lot of time to build machines, but im sure many other good builders around the world think same as me

[No Iron Machines]

Hey robin, vc es portuguese?
Eu trabalhe por pedro da piranha la no viseu...

[peter clements]

maybe im wrong, this is my point of view, maybe becouse i spend a lot of time to build machines, but im sure many other good builders around the world think same as me

I would say all good builders would agree with you. The thing we are talking about here is INTEGRITY.

[Jim]

Anyone else wonder where Cheeta and Jane were while reading this thread? I swear I felt my forehead go Cromagnon for a minute. People that rip off machines take several shortcuts, they don't put any of their time and money in the design or engineering. They are just like a scratcher not putting any time in blood borne pathogens or sterility, but both do somehow take pride and defend their work. They take all these shortcuts not caring about their customer or who they are hurting. That's why it is unethical.

Perhaps, that's why they don't mind calling them guns...they could point either at you and not care.

[robinTS]

you still work there?
his there i buy my supplies. say hello to pedro from me tell him is carlos from povoa

[Clone Boy]

Machines dont make a tattoo. The artist does.
As long as the artist feels at home with there machines then cost or brand shouldnt matter. I agree about the time and effort put into the originals but can anyone say they have never bought an item whatever it maybe as a fake/knock-off, or downloaded from a torrent site for free, ever?
Nike.Adidas.Prada.Coca-Cola. Keep everyone afraid and they will consume.....

[wildboy]

Do you really think that compares to tattoo machine builders? The companies you named have the ability and money to fight back with big lawsuits I guess small tattoo companies dont have that opportunity. Besides that their copyright portected shit gets pulled at the customs too and will be destroyed.

[Ta2GeezerUK]

Do you really think that compares to tattoo machine builders? The companies you named have the ability and money to fight back with big lawsuits I guess small tattoo companies dont have that opportunity. Besides that their copyright portected shit gets pulled at the customs too and will be destroyed.
Very true statement WB, It is the big guns that have the power for sure. I think it would be because of the size of the community on the whole that Tattooing will never fall into that category of being able to stop counterfeit,

[Jim]

Many machine builders are small entities they are not multinational corporations. They don't lobby corrupt government electorates to further their agendas. If corporate evil is the argument then what about a whole country, running off the same principle of multinational corporations?

Your corporate argument is flawed my friend. Ask the machine builders on this forum if they are a large multinational corporation, or if they are trying to put food on their table for their families. Ask them if they hire local workers and create jobs in their communities.

There are some that probably do outsource to china and they know who they are, pick up their machine and run it you will too. Being able to tattoo well with anything is a moot point, its a conscience clearing self justification for taking food out of the tattoo communities mouth. I am starting to be glad that I am unable to tattoo any longer, the community used to be tight knit and respectful of one another...now look at it. It's a shameful disgrace in it's current state, it's become another meme, thanks to media, DIY kits, and some idiots that don't care about who they bring into the tattoo family as long as you have 5k and two weeks to spare. I am starting to think the scratcher community is closer to original tattooing and it's roots, because they are hungry, eager to learn, tight knit, risk everything just to tattoo, and would give their left nut or ovary to get an apprenticeship at a legit street shop...and that's sad.

I don't know man it sucks to feel this way...sorry for the rant, I just miss the true grit and root of what tattooing used to be. I hate seeing the trade turn into: psychologist with a tattoo machine, and a bunch of hipster idiots that don't deserve to touch a machine, much less be tattooed by one ruining a once sacred trust. All of you that hold that trust and the craft passed to you in high regard and keep it's roots...I salute you.

I suppose shattering the myth that everyone gets tattooed not just outlaws and criminals has been helpful in someways, but destructive as well in how it's watered down and divided the community...that's why I wish I was still able to tattoo, so I could be one of those that proudly hold up the banner of my tattooing fore-fathers legacy with respect, determination and lasting integrity. Not one of those sorry sacks of crap that exploit the industry for a passing buck.

[Mr.Taboo]

"Tattoos used to mean you lived outside the law; now tattoos mean you’ve been to a mall." ~ Penn Jillette

.

[Dman]

Its funny the other day I interviewed and Engineer and he knew how to draw parts and what they should do but didnt have a clue as to how there manufactured. Then the next day I went to look at a supplier. They were 100% chinese workers here in the USA, they had no clue what the product does or why but damn they knew how to manufacture it and in large quantities. I guess this is why they have no clue what to put in the descriptions.

[robinTS]

http://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=Paulo+Cruzes&init=public&nomc=0#!/photo.php?fbid=2145834164781&set=a.1993479996022.2097583.1214078526&type=1&theater


he did the swastica style :cool:

[Clone Boy]

I think I have been miss understood somewhere along the line. I buy what I feel comfortable using personaly which has nothing to do with brand name, cost or builder. I talk to a lot of artists and hear alot of artist talk about these top end machines and anything below them SUCK! My point was, lifes to short, theres to much hate in this world and at the end of the day as long as good tattoos are born then we succeed, right folks?Im healthy, my family is healthy, and my tattooing feels healthy.No Drama, No Issues, Lets All Get Tattooing.....

[Fliquet]

Right guys, heres what we doooo..

I just bought the replica machine. Should arrive soon.
I am going to be doing A LOT of comparisons against it and the original dragonfly.

Most parts of most machines are china (or somewhere similar) built. so what?
Its what you make use of your machine!

It is running a true maxon rotor and is alot lighter than the original.. this may improve the amount of play you can do with a tattoo.
What are brand names nowadays? I bought the dragonfly when it was released for £467.15 !!
Dragonfly hadn't produced an earlier machine (that i am aware of) so really they can be seen as people who just got lucky?

If i built machines, i would take what works and make it better; and hope not to be slated for hard work and perseverence.

WATCH THIS SPACE FOR REPLICA VS ORIGINAL :)

[Nedz]

I just got 2 replica's to have a look and compare them. They came with instructions not to turn the adjuster more than quarter of a turn, I thought this was a little strange as the Dragonfly turns all the way around.
Anyway the build quality on the frame is almost the same it even has the hole for the rca but does not use it and the frame is not cut awy like the one pictured on this thread it is identical to the original. When you turn the adjuster though the machine stops working it just locks up both of the machines do this so they have not followed through on the design just copied it not knowing what it actully does typical Chinese copy.

[Nedz]

Yesterday I had an email from someone asking if I sold spare parts for the firefly which really @@***@ me off.

[Administrator]

Could just offer to sell them the two you have. ;)

[peter clements]

I just got 2 replica's to have a look and compare them. They came with instructions not to turn the adjuster more than quarter of a turn, I thought this was a little strange as the Dragonfly turns all the way around.
Anyway the build quality on the frame is almost the same it even has the hole for the rca but does not use it and the frame is not cut awy like the one pictured on this thread it is identical to the original. When you turn the adjuster though the machine stops working it just locks up both of the machines do this so they have not followed through on the design just copied it not knowing what it actully does typical Chinese copy.

But is it the same replica as Paulo Cruzes is selling? I know he claims to use a Maxon motor,just wondering about the rest.

[OwlsDen]

You know, if the people that make the real machines would just say to eBay that an auction is a copy of their copyright, eBay is required to take it down. A while ago I bid on a Micky Sharpz Paul Rogers machine. I was not winning the auction. But eBay contacted me to let me know that the copyright holder had contacted them to pull the auction and that they were required to do so. If enough manufactures did this they might move on and find another market to exploit.

[pert]

very good point......if only the makers could do this.?

[julianforrester]

I have tried the same model as Nedz...
the motor certainly isnt Maxon, it only had 1/4 turn adjustment any more and it locks up, so (on the one i tried) there is only soft hitting, about the same as my dragonfly.
pulling it to bits, the guts resemble the DF but i think that it is the 2 screw motor clamp that inhibits the 90degree alignment between the motor shaft and the adjuster screw so that more than 1/4 turn makes the screw lock in the cap.
running it, its noisier than my DF but it works alright and at similar voltage, certainly better than any other "copy" machine i have ever tried !
without a doubt, stripping and rebuilding with some care resulted in the machine running much better than when it came out of the box, and i suppose with some further attention it could run better.
I doubt that it will be long until the "newness" of a DF copy wears off, and that the fleabay market will be saturated with such copies, and so it follows that the price will drop to boot !
It doesn't surprise me that 'reputable' builders will re-engineer these machines and flog them for twice what they paid but still 2/3 of a DF simply because people will buy them. Without demand there is no need for supply
Peace

[punkangel]

Yep seen these popping up . here comes the flood.

lol you are correct, checked out Flebay, and it is getting lots on, £84 being the cheapest
LOOKS LIKE THE RIP OFF, IS BEING OUT PRICED BY THE RIP OFF, pmsl
My piont being, that if its cheap crap it don't matter who you are or what you build, it will always be cheap crap!! all it does is dent a good rep!

[Nedz]

I cant tell any difference between the original and the copy when tattooing the only niggle is the quarter turn but as I dont think much of the adjustment on the original dragon fly its not a problem.
My machines came from Mark at New Image, he been in the business 20 years and his father be for him and I now him personally the coil machines he sells he designs himself as his father before.

[Clone Boy]

I thought mark sold new image! i know there location has changed....

[linsner666]

cheapest? here:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/506287617/The_Rotary_Tattoo_Machine_Tattoo_gun.html

[chris]

I just emailed them they still want 100 plus 40 shipping they just put 60-80 just to get you to email them.