Healing issue with Rapier 2

[CRose801]

This is the 3rd black and grey tattoo come back with this on it... all three have been long healed (over a month). These spots are not going away. It almost seems like a rash on and under the skin, its real dry and flaky but doesn't seem to hurt the client... 2 of the tattoos that came back with this were on large leg tattoos... 5 hour + sessions, the 3rd was on a stomach... Any idea on how to get rid of these spots and what is causing them?? This is the first time seeing this in 5 year of tattooing and they have all happened in the last 3 months or so...5566

[OwlsDen]

Could be your ink. Some blacks are known to grow mold. Give it a whiff, if it stinks then that could be your problem. I personally have never seen that before, but I don't think a machine would be the cause.

[gangstajay]

I see hair..could be hair bumps.. I doubt your machine is the issue.

[Bishopbyname]

It's definitely not the machine. I've NEVER seen a reaction that's purely been down to a machine before. Reactions are always down to cleanliness and hygiene. If you know that you tattoo clean then it's either the ink or the customer not looking after it properly. But because it's happened more than once i doubt it's the customer's fault. Which only leaves the ink as the suspect IMO

[Administrator]

Ask the client to tell you how they took care of the tattoo. What they put on it, how often etc. Its always best to not ask if they did what you told them cause 90% of the time they will lie and say yes. they could be allergic to the soap or lotion they are using. They could be a chronic carrier for mild forms of staph or other minor bacterial stuff. Check your bottles of pigment. Smell them for sure! Are these the only people coming back with this problem or have you put black in others that are having no issue?

[Administrator]

And for the record anyone who has taken a BBP class that talks about staph realize there are many different kinds of staph bacteria. Some very minor that are just a nuisance and others that will kill you. You may still want your client to talk to their Dr just in case.

[elbo]

Well we had something similar in our studio once!...one of our newer guys was in a habit of forgetting to close up the twist top on he's greywash inks....despite me telling him constantly"do the fucking top up after using it" my reason being that the bottle was open to the air and it could possibly be a breeding ground for bacteria...now not long after this he had about 3 or 4 customer develop a spotty rash not disimilar to the picture posted..it only happened on b&g not black or any other colour...these spots lasted months and one customer even had a biopsy which proved to be inconclusive!....Now i still maintained that the problem was due to the greywash being left opened even though it wasnt a everyday occurance...Anyway i made him throw the offending bottles away and the problem has never occured since .The artist involved now knows i wont tolerate it happening again and makes sure the tops are twisted up tightly and knows the shit will hit the fan if it happens again...thankfully the customers involved were understanding and the rash/spots eventually disapeared....

[CRose801]

I agree 100% that its not the machine... I may have left the tops open on the bottles once or twice... I bought a new set of greywash (fusion) just the other day so I can't smell the old bottles but I have a feeling that could of been an issue. I smelled the new bottles and one of them does have a little vinegar smell. We smelled some of the other fusion greywash sets and a couple bottles smelled horrible, like rotten lunch meat... those bottles were tossed. I do a ton of black and grey and Ive only seen the problem 3 times, in my 3 favorites, only in the greywash never in the black. Is there anything topical I can recommend using? The first guy I saw this in was a sewer worker who was 50 years old, 300 lbs, 6'6 and was later told diabetic. I tried to get him to go to the Dr. for months and he wouldn't... he finally did and the Dr. gave him a name for what he had, but of course he cant remember...

[CRose801]

I see hair..could be hair bumps.. I doubt your machine is the issue. This is right below a bellow button.. right below the picture is ridiculous thunderbush

[Inkslingers]

Ask the client to tell you how they took care of the tattoo. What they put on it, how often etc. Its always best to not ask if they did what you told them cause 90% of the time they will lie and say yes. they could be allergic to the soap or lotion they are using. They could be a chronic carrier for mild forms of staph or other minor bacterial stuff. Check your bottles of pigment. Smell them for sure! Are these the only people coming back with this problem or have you put black in others that are having no issue?

You may have missed this in the post, but this is something that has happened 3 times...so I'd tend to rule out the healing factor as been the cause (unless by way of total fluke they all healed their tattoos the same way). A staph could be the cause, but again, if 3 people have the same issue it would have most likely originated from the studio that the work was done. Something you may want to consider. Keep in mind that many forms of staph can live on a surface for weeks, even months in some cases.

[CRose801]

You may have missed this in the post, but this is something that has happened 3 times...so I'd tend to rule out the healing factor as been the cause (unless by way of total fluke they all healed their tattoos the same way). A staph could be the cause, but again, if 3 people have the same issue it would have most likely originated from the studio that the work was done. Something you may want to consider. Keep in mind that many forms of staph can live on a surface for weeks, even months in some cases. That's why I'm trying to figure out whats going on and asking if anyone else has had a similar issue...I never said this was solely a problem with them healing, I'm aware the problem could be something I'm doing. Telling me that I could be transferring stapf doesn't help if this is not a staph infection. There are 3 different clients that could have 3 completely unrelated things going on. Why has it only happened to 3% of people I have used the same grey wash on? If it was staph shouldn't I be seeing it in color and line work and most likely other people in the shop? I'd bet my left nut that 99% of people who have healing issues get them from sleeping on dirty sheets with their dog and the skank they just picked up from a bar, not my immaculate studio. Sorry if this comes off defensive but I'm looking for things I can look for, like stanky greywash, and what I can do to help my clients that got it...not to hear I'm transferring staph with no evidence that's what it is...

[Administrator]

To be clear I was not accusing you of spreading staph, I know people that are chronic carriers of impetigo and will have reactions on healed tattooos when getting work on another part of their body. Asking them how they took care of the tattoo can help sort out what it could have been that was the cause.

MRSA is a big buzz word in the community right now. There are multiple other skin issues that can be picked up from dirty sheets and pets that are still staph and all a result of clients not paying attention to their tattoo while it heals or never washing their hands before and after putting anything into the new tattoo. Getting a good wiff of your washes might be a good thing to do as pointed out earlier. There has been more than one recall in the past with multiple pigment manufacturers due to mold.

[Administrator]

I agree 100% that its not the machine... I may have left the tops open on the bottles once or twice... I bought a new set of greywash (fusion) just the other day so I can't smell the old bottles but I have a feeling that could of been an issue. I smelled the new bottles and one of them does have a little vinegar smell. We smelled some of the other fusion greywash sets and a couple bottles smelled horrible, like rotten lunch meat... those bottles were tossed. I do a ton of black and grey and Ive only seen the problem 3 times, in my 3 favorites, only in the greywash never in the black. Is there anything topical I can recommend using? The first guy I saw this in was a sewer worker who was 50 years old, 300 lbs, 6'6 and was later told diabetic. I tried to get him to go to the Dr. for months and he wouldn't... he finally did and the Dr. gave him a name for what he had, but of course he cant remember...

Diabetic will open them up to so much!


This is right below a bellow button.. right below the picture is ridiculous thunderbush

Could also be a reaction to his own button on his pants if he has a metal or polymer allergy. My mom has horrible skin conditions on her hands brought on from working as a cleaning lady for almost 40 years she has to drive with gloves one cause she is allergic to the inside of her car.

[Alie K]

Is there anything topical I can recommend using? The first guy I saw this in was a sewer worker who was 50 years old, 300 lbs, 6'6 and was later told diabetic. I tried to get him to go to the Dr. for months and he wouldn't... he finally did and the Dr. gave him a name for what he had, but of course he cant remember...

Be careful about recommending anything. There are some crazy people out there. If you recommend a medicinal product, and they have any sort of reaction/problem with that product, YOU will be to blame, and some people are sue-happy. I prefer to remind people that I am an artist and not a doctor. If they want a diagnosis, they are best to go to a medical practicioner.

I agree, not the machine - if it were, it would happen more often, and on all types of tattoos.

Maybe the ink - though, if it were the ink, and there were fungus/bacteria of some sort in it, almost everyone you used that ink on would have a reaction to it - kind of like if you made something to eat and it had bacteria and everyone who ate it threw up. If the tops of the bottles are left open often enough, do you think some of the alcohol/preservative could have evaporated, leaving water and pigment to eventually spoil?

Are you using any new equipment? Ordering needles from another supplier? Is the packaging always intact? I've bought needles from suppliers (that I won't buy from anymore) because sometimes I'd open up a needle, and the paper was barely sticking to the blister plastic part. If the needles weren't sterilized properly, or were compromised by poor packaging (this even goes for disposable tubes), bacteria could be present. You could have one needle out of every 5 that are compromised, which could result in intermittent reactions.

Also, how often do you change your wash bottle? Do you sanitize or sterilize it in the autoclave? How often do you do this? I've always been taught to never leave water/soap mix or even plain water in a bottle for more than 48 hours. Food for thought - some bottled waters contain an 'acceptable' amount of e-coli bacteria in them (which reminds me of the 'acceptable' amount of cockroach legs in chocolate bars which I am no longer craving).

Does the client have pets at home? Do they wash their hands before they apply ointment to the tattoo? Do they wash their tattoo at all? Or do they have a compromised immune system (because of a current or chronic illness)? Or are they prone to ingrown hairs? Do they shower every day?

Did I read it correctly about the location of the tattoo? That it is between his groin and navel? That, for many men can be an area where, if shaved, can easily result in ingrown hairs - many times because of the new friction of clothing on a spot that isn't shaved often (if at all).

Sooo many variables! Unless there is a definite diagnosis, allergy/bacterial infection/viral infection/chronic condition/neurological response etc, it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what would be causing it.

[elbo]

Must add...in the case i mentioned earlier...the spots/rash appeared on random B&G customers but not all.

[Ta2GeezerUK]

I had this issue about 12 yrs ago on a guy that had area's of Black/grey freshly put in. I had the bottle from a supply house here in the UK in Brum. 'No names for obv reasons' It was first time I'd used this supplier for shade inks and threw em out as soon as the guy came to show me. It turned out it was an 'off batch' that they notified the buyers of it for a call back as a few guys were having issues. Luckily I'd only done the 1 Tattoo with it then put it aside until I could see the results. Needless to say I moved on to other brands. I think it is more than likely a mould issue of some sort.

[hendricksonart.com]

We have had reactions in our shop from one guys new grey wash set. The reactions were from a batch or premixed grey wash its happened to about 75 percent of the people it was used on within a couple of weeks with the grey wash. Its a big name company but the reactions eventually went away. They were not as bad as yours but similar. Its most likely the grey wash. This happened very recently. Pm me what grey wash you were using.

[wildboy]

Any ideas in general why this is happening with greywash? Maybe the greywashes you guys talk about were just regular black mixed with water and by that reduced the ratio of the preservative?

[CRose801]

Any ideas in general why this is happening with greywash? Maybe the greywashes you guys talk about were just regular black mixed with water and by that reduced the ratio of the preservative? I only used a pre-mixed greywash... I was using fusions set (I don't have a problem saying that because I'm not accusing them of anything) and now that I think about it it was near the end of the bottles so mold could def be the factor due to leaving lids open... So much food for thought, Thanks Alie

[OwlsDen]

I still do it old school and mix my own with witch hazel. You really have to pick the right blacks for the job, but you never have to worry about this. And if you only get 4-8oz bottles of black, you ( if you do any volume. ) will use it before it goes bad. I also use the witch hazel with some alcohol in it. I typically unless doing tribal, add a few drops to my lining black too. You can never be too careful.

[fkirons]

In most cases is not the machine, but how the artist uses the machine. Not trying to say that you don't know what you doing but you may be used to a way of tattooing that must adapt to your new Rapier.

Do you check your needles? you may have had hooks, a bad batch can ruin tattoos.

That scaring looks severe, are you sure your client took good care of the tattoo?
The machine would be the last thing I would consider being a problem. Look into all the above.

[hendricksonart.com]

to me it doesn't look like a scar its not even where he tattooed in some places it looks like a rash from mold to me just a really bad one

[CRose801]

In most cases is not the machine, but how the artist uses the machine. Not trying to say that you don't know what you doing but you may be used to a way of tattooing that must adapt to your new Rapier.

Do you check your needles? you may have had hooks, a bad batch can ruin tattoos.

That scaring looks severe, are you sure your client took good care of the tattoo?
The machine would be the last thing I would consider being a problem. Look into all the above.

The tattoo was barely hit in the area that has the rash... I check my needles every time no exceptions, in fact I just tossed my collection of 100+ barbed needles... I have used the rapier for quite some time now... I don't normally have any healing issues, most of my clients heal in 4-7 days...

[tugg]

I recently had a customer come back for more work added to his sleeve and he also had rash like spots in certain parts of the tattoo I had done 2 weeks previuosly.the reaction was mainly where I put mostly a lighter wash, this was all done using a pre made wash.

[tattooedpirate2]

Most artists today use needles made in the far east by young children who are slave labored for $1.60 a day. If the flux from said needles is not deactivated with baking soda I have seen reactions like this. Once I had a group of sailors who got tattooed went to a party got drunk and began horse playing with one being thrown into a nasty canal. The guy went home and passed out with the filth on the fresh tattoo without cleaning it. Next day infection set in he did'nt go to medical for 2-3 days, well staph set in. These idiots were passing around the same tube of A&D ointment and all of them caught it. Even their girlfriends caught it just from touch. Needless to say sometimes it's just a drunken sailor on liberty who does'nt bath right.

[Inkslingers]

Most artists today use needles made in the far east by young children who are slave labored for $1.60 a day. If the flux from said needles is not deactivated with baking soda I have seen reactions like this. Once I had a group of sailors who got tattooed went to a party got drunk and began horse playing with one being thrown into a nasty canal. The guy went home and passed out with the filth on the fresh tattoo without cleaning it. Next day infection set in he did'nt go to medical for 2-3 days, well staph set in. These idiots were passing around the same tube of A&D ointment and all of them caught it. Even their girlfriends caught it just from touch. Needless to say sometimes it's just a drunken sailor on liberty who does'nt bath right.

I've seen reactions from flux (in a shop I worked in an artist put flux in another's black)...although part of the tattoo pictured looks like it could actually be a flux reaction from a needle, the spotting tells a different story, so I doubt it's the case here.

[fkirons]

Most artists today use needles made in the far east by young children who are slave labored for $1.60 a day.
Abolish slavery, make your own needles and group them with sewing thread and super-glue like back in the days :)

[Inkslingers]

Abolish slavery, make your own needles and group them with sewing thread and super-glue like back in the days :)

Made me think of my first tattoo. 14 years old, done with a sewing needle and thread wrapped around it, some Indian ink...was so proud of it! (looked like shit of course) My Mother agreed with that thought and tried scrubbing it out of me with an SOS pad and bleach. She got about half of it...the other half she got out 2 days later when she went back to scrubbing with another SOS pad..til this day every time I see one of those things I have to laugh.

[tugg]

I know we would really like to blame cheap chinese needles for these reactions but I don't think this is the case here.
ring any bells?

[Administrator]

Funny thing reading this old thread again. I have a friend who had a nearly identical reaction. All the artists at his shop had a different theory on what it might javelin been from stash to flux to fungus from wash bottle water or pigment. In the end it was diagnosed by a doctor as cirisus (sp?) brought on most likely by stress. He was prescribed a steroid cream and just about went away. It also took so weeks to go away. He was told this was an auto immune response and it may return at any time.

sent from my oobnoxiosly large galaxy note phone thing via tapatalk.

[tugg]

I know of atleast 4 tattoo studios including myself that have had this problem. with one common denominator being the branded greywash used.
this taken from another thread.Lammy wrote,
fusion is a great company. i stopped using thier greywash because i recieved a bad batch which gave more than a few of my clients little red bumps all over the areas where the greywash was used which developed AFTER the tattoo healed. this all happened late last year and the clients STILL have the bumps. doctors can't figure it out and a topical steriod cream is'nt working. at first i thought it was something i was doing wrong, but after a few weeks of trying different things, i figured out that the wash was the issue

Did you notify Fusion about this reaction



yes i did back when it first happened. spoke with adam directly over the phone as per his request. he was being cool about it, asked what lot # it was and admitted a bad batch. told me to throw the ink away and he was sending me a new set. i got the new set, but quarrantined the old set. i'm holding onto it in case i have to get it lab tested to help my clients out and to keep from being sued myself. i wrote adam a couple of weeks ago to let him know my clients still have the bumps and doctors can't figure it out. i was basically just looking for some suggestions as to how to help my clients. he responded defensively and basically put it on me saying he does'nt know how my inks are stored or handled. after 9 years of tattooing, i'm pretty sure i know how to handle and store my ink...... that conversation put a bad taste in my mouth.

[Administrator]

I get it. However you are stirring a cold turd here. All you will keep getting is the same stink.

sent from my oobnoxiosly large galaxy note phone thing via tapatalk.

[daza]

I've just had a good look at the picture and all of the above are valid points and not to be ignored by any means but looking at it my thoughts are a shaving rash that's got sore which has then been picked and scratched then got infected but like most people it was not me i have not done anything wrong. The sore isn't on the tattoo but at the side just a thought

[Mission Tattoo]

do you bactine?

[tugg]

do you bactine?
I sometimes use Bactine ,Why do you ask?

[peter clements]

The rash in the photo looks fungal to me, but I'm not a Dermatologist. The worst non-infection type reaction I've seen was with a tattoo that had been done and the tube had remnants of Rapidex in it, it literally ulcerated. How do I know about the Rapidex? The dumb twat that did it admitted it.

[Sage Oz]

Fungal it probably is. Modern medicine is so wrapped up in bacterial and viral pathology and does not have a lot of understanding of the estimated 100,000 varieties of fungus out there. It sounds extreme but the only way to remove some fungal pathogens is to starve them by way of a rigid 40day dietary detox. I don't thump bibles but there are some stories that are based off of real knowledge, one of those being Lent. It was traditionally a time of bodily detox where you were required to eat nothing except dark leafy veggies and/or mana(superfoods like spiralina). No dairy, breads, nuts or sugars at all. The 40 days is regarded by modern science to be about the time it takes to turnover and rebuild all cells in the body....

[clint morrison]

I got a bad batch of grey wash last year. I noticed something smelled like rotten eggs. Luckily I realized it was the ink before I put it in my client. I contacted the company and they sent a replacement right away. First thing I did when I got the replacement was smell it. Rotten eggs again. They sent out another replacement, and finally, no smell. I always smell my ink before I use it now. Probably looks weird but oh well.

[Sage Oz]

Good advice. A bad ink won't always smell but a good ink never smells rotten.

[lammy2012]

hmm, thats funny. the bottle of extra light in my wash set smelt like rotten eggs. i had these problems till i switched brands.

[clint morrison]

Interesting article on bad gray wash
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/22/13417518-infected-tattoos-linked-to-distilled-water-in-ink?lite

[Eturnus]

Interesting article on bad gray wash
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/22/13417518-infected-tattoos-linked-to-distilled-water-in-ink?lite

:O shocking.

[Cabal Tattoo]

Could be your needles, check for barbed tips...!?

[vodu]

definitely mycobacteria by the blister

[grey]

*Im definitely not suggesting that your issue is similar in severity, but in New York state, a shop making and selling thier own greywash. The local news started reporting horrible reaction occurring with the greywash. although it was isolated to that area/town it made national news, here is one article http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/168935256.html once again im not saying it was that, but maybe a mild form of the same issue which they say in other reports about that NY outbreak that it has to do with using water like tap water that has bacteria, which is normal. but when sitting around in the air that harmless bacteria grows into a staff infection. yours is a lot less severe, so i hope you aren't offended. im definitely not saying that you are doing anything close to what that link talks about. but it's definitely something to think about. i am pretty sure that silverback xxx is the first tattoo ink approved by the european version of the united states FDA (food and drug administration) I know Mario Barth has spend years trying to get FDA approval for tattoo pigments for his brand "Intenze" but so far there are no US tattoo pigment/inks that are FDA approved. that does not make them unsafe in any way. it is just that the FDA doesn't want to take on the task of testing, proving, and announcing the safety or danger of every brand and color of tattoo ink product. so i would probably go with the 100% government approved Silverback XXX for your greywash. i would say it's an ink issue in your case. worth changing your greywash. For about two weeks, everyone who knew i was a tattooer was saying that they sawon tv/newspaper that a local (new mexico) epidemic of "flesh eating ink thats killing people" which lead me to research and find the source of the rumors. and found multiple articles, all of them about the NY state cases.........thats just how people are though....

-grey

[ckjr]

I've seen a similar case, long story short after going to a doctor, the person was told to wash the area with head and shoulders shampoo and to not use any ointments or creams. It was in fact fungal. There was a lot of factors, but I still believe it was due to using sink water for a rinse cup, a big no no in my book

lost in this strange galaxy.....
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