Hi Everybody

[Killer Ink]

I'm Matt I work at Killer Ink, we are based in Liverpool, UK and sell Tattoo Equipment across Europe.

Rotary machines we currently stock are Stigmas, Dragonflys, Bishops, Cheyenne and Peter Tiegs as well as a range of Coil machines.

We also carry a wide range of inks, our own needles (which we are very proud of) as well as a host of other supplies.

Any questions or anything, please get in touch.

Matt
www.killerink.co.uk
[email protected]

[Ta2GeezerUK]

A friend of mine's ordered some needles from ya, He's going to bring them over on Saturday. I see you also have courses that you run a 3 day intensive course to become a 'Tattoo Artist' and they get a certificate etc. I've read through the page and they get all the gear needed depending on how much they spend on a Tattoo course with ya.

[gangstajay]

confused??

[Ta2GeezerUK]

confused?? what about??

[Administrator]

You run a tattoo school?

[Ta2GeezerUK]

http://www.killerinktattoo.co.uk/products/tattoo-training/intensive-tattoo-instructional-course-package-part-i-10-deposit/

Just incase no one spots it on the site. :cool:

[OwlsDen]

Smells a little TLC

[slicksteel]

And I quote from the page ad
"We know that six weeks of your time is asking alot. We know you'd probably love to, but to fit this around your current working life just isn't always possible. With that in mind, we have created this Intensive training course which will run for three full days.
All i can say that is some funny shit!:cool:

[pert]

i been tattooing over 30 years and still learning......anyone think they can learn it all in an instant is a bit foolish.

but the other side of the coin is if they at least teach them basic hygene in tattooing its a start.
and maybe they might even progress on into a leading artist.?

personally i hate the idea of a course to teach everyone our trade.
think it takes a lot longer than a few days.
but better this than scratching from the garden shed, and doing real damage.
hell its only a matter of time before theres an outbreak of some nasty blood poisoning by these kit heads.

just my thoughts on it folks

[Cyberitual]

Here is a quick question, how much $ do we all make on cover ups?

[OwlsDen]

Here is a quick question, how much $ do we all make on cover ups?
A LOT! There are weeks when 90% of my business is cover ups. Apparently a lot of tattooists here in Bavaria do not like to do cover ups. So people search for people that do. So, it can sometimes be my major money maker.

[Magnu]

I akso do a lot of cover ups but would rather work on clean skin, far less of a compramise for all concerned

[Mr.Taboo]

I akso do a lot of cover ups but would rather work on clean skin, far less of a compramise for all concerned
Agree 100 % We do make money on cover ups but who wants to spend time fixin'/coverin' something some bozo did, I'd rather make money doin' work on fresh skin.
Plus there is the health issue with these two week , three day , or "I read the pamphlet that came with the stuff" clowns and if there is a major outbreak of some nasty bug and the media can link to tattooing this trade could go down the drain in one big swirl.
Of course this is just my opinion I could be wrong.

[pert]

we have a guy who lazers at the shop.
but most folks would rather get coverups done.

i know its money coming through the doors. but i really do prefer bare skin.
its easier....and trying to explin the coverup tattoo to the dunce is a nightmare.
like they ask for the most elaboarte tattoos to go over the blackest tattoo.?
trying to explain that a pice of celtic knotwork will not cover a black panther for X amount of money.?

i do loads of coverups. and am just about pissed off with the assholes trying to tell me how to cover their tattoos.
seems folks in belfast think a coverup is going to be easy.?
its a challenge at times and nice when it works perfect. but thats not always gonna happen.
although i try my best, its always great when we get it just right.

[Ta2GeezerUK]

Its a fine balance between getting it just right and not quite right. I did at 1 time make about 40% of my money doing cover-ups that some studio's only ever offered to put a panther or a peacock over it! . And its ALWAYS a compromise on either Choice of colours or altering/adding to a design.

I got quite well and truly fucked off that some Kitchen Wizard with cheap gear was fookin up these peoples bodies and then have them come to me to put it right. ...Once in my chair they get the 'MOTHER' of all lectures! .....I'd scare em shitless over hep c and other contagions!

[Ta2GeezerUK]

And another thing!! ...... Ah fook! ...cant remember what it was now! . :rolleyes: I'll have to sleep on it!

[gangstajay]

what about??
I will tell you why, cuz that site looks like it sells a bunch of knock off shit!!and I'm sure they sell to anyone.. but here we have a link to it. and about a damm crash course in tattooing, it was just the other day Gaston made a comment about not making the site full of knock off junk, But hey it is what it is.

[Ta2GeezerUK]

Well I hope your vitriol aint aimed at me young man! :o The thread starter put a link up to his own site. I was drawing attention to the fact that although they may be a supplier they also seem to be turning out 3 day Tattooists!!
Which in my book is Just so wrong! on many levels!! . I aint condoning what they are doing I'm actually raising awareness as to what people You are dealing with by supporting them if you choose to buy from them.. I for one will not be buying no matter if the stuff they sell is genuine or not! Just my opinion!

[Mr.Taboo]

I think you guys are on the same side of this.
I think Jay wasn't confused by Geezer's post pointing out the OP runs a tattoo school but more as to why the OP was in here in the first place.
Seeing as to how they run a tattoo school and also seem to be the kind of supplier that we've been bemoaning about lately on other posts on the forum.

[gangstajay]

Well I hope your vitriol aint aimed at me young man! :o The thread starter put a link up to his own site. I was drawing attention to the fact that although they may be a supplier they also seem to be turning out 3 day Tattooists!!
Which in my book is Just so wrong! on many levels!! . I aint condoning what they are doing I'm actually raising awareness as to what people You are dealing with by supporting them if you choose to buy from them.. I for one will not be buying no matter if the stuff they sell is genuine or not! Just my opinion!
nope..you asked what I was confused about and I was explaining, thats all!

[gangstajay]

yes what MR.Taboo said

[Ta2GeezerUK]

Haha, Right ok my friend, Wasnt sure how to take what you were putting across. So all good! This sort of thing is good to be looked at. I think to many in the Industry when they see this happening just shake there head... and then put it back in the sand... Some folk may pay no attention whatso ever and pretend the Issue does not affect them. A kind of 'I'm alright Jack' Mentality towards it.

The fact of the matter is it does affect us. If not individually then as a whole!. This Business is saturated with those that call in/phone up stating that they are 'Qualified' and would I consider renting out a chair to the 'Next big thing' and would I like to see his/her Guns!! blah blah blah!.. As said earlier at some point somethings gonna give. There's only so much bending this business can take before it snaps!


We may not be able to stop the rot setting in. But at our own peril should we ignore it!

[Inkslingers]

What the f*ck exactly is the matter with you people? This is not cool, this is not something we just shrug out shoulders over. Everyday that I come here, I see threads started by members who dig up the latest crap they can find off the net to cry about on this forum. You bitch about the scratchers down the street taking your business, post pictures of the horrible work they've done, how this industry is becoming so diluted, complain about companies selling to the public, selling Chinese knock offs, jump on the bandwagon to boycott TLC....yet here ALL that is wrapped up into one neat little package and you're not freaking out over it? Why don't I see members demanding that Killer Ink be removed from this site? Why now that it's been put on the table hasn't the Administration/site owners removed them yourself? If they are allowed to stay, it says one thing, that you support them and what they are doing.

I've had to hold my tongue several times while I've been a member of this forum. I personally disagree with supporting any company that sells tattoo equipment to the general public, that sells copied machines or kits. I will not put a dime in the pocket of anyone that does this. I won't purchase from builders who sell their machines threw these supply houses. That just me, I try to do my part. Others seem to think that it's okay to keep these companies in business by buying from them if it means saving a buck, I don't. Neither will I support a forum that has leeches like this as a member.

As for the rest of you? You need to grow a pair and speak up about this. There's no debating this issue. Killer Ink can not justify what they are doing. They and others like them will be the destruction of this industry. They are A problem, but the real problem lies with anyone that has accepts or supports their existence in anyway, shape or form.

[Mr.Taboo]

Inkslingers does have a point if someone who runs a supply outfit that sells kits , and to the public along with a tattoo school is allowed in here where do we draw the line ?
Do we allow the tattoo school grads in ? Or maybe the people who buy the kits too ?

[spoonertattoos]

Im with inkslinger on this one for sure. All companies that sell direct knock offs should be banned.

[Ta2GeezerUK]

He does have a valid point yer. Which is why I wanted to point out in the beginning what these guys do. The OP may of got away with making aquaintances on here without the majority of those who care not even bothering to pick through there site!. I am always on the ball when it comes to this kind of stuff and expose it wherever possible. It is wrong for them to be associated with a group who strive to make the world of Tattooing a better place.

Phil and I exchanged a few emails the other night when I first brought it to peoples attention. He said He was gonna have a word with Ali about it.

[Gabetexas]

You'll be back. lol

[Killer Ink]

Hi,


We appreciate everyones opinions and would like to give our answers to points which have been raised on this thread.


Kits: Yes we sell Kits, the fact is people want to learn how to tattoo. If all the companies in the Western world (Europe, USA) stopped selling kits then the sales of kits would not simply go away. People are interested in tattooing and those who are artistic enough would like a chance to get into this industry If all European and American companies stopped selling kits then the sales would still exist, but would be completely direct from Chinese companies. As you know, there are already plenty companies in China that sell and ship kits around the world, often these kits cost approx. $60-70 and contain 50 bottles of ink, hundreds of needles and 6-10 machines. Obviously at these prices shortcuts on quality will have been made. The inks could contain anything, as could the needle solder. The equipment we sell fully adhere to all relevant legislation. The Ink is EU Res AP(2008)1 compliant as well as adhering to the relevant German legislation: Deutsche Tätowiermittelverordnung (BGBl. I Nr. 53 vom 27.11.2008). The needles are made from 304 Stainless Steel with lead free solder and are good quality, not splayed. There will undoubtedly be people that take the high ground and see it as a black and white issue, however we disagree, and believe it is a grey issue and try to be more pragmatic about it. Simply put we believe that people are going to buy kits anyway and that it is better that they buy safe equipment that adheres to the applicable legislation than buy it from elsewhere where companies may place less importance on the safety of the products. We carry all certification to prove all batches of disposable equipment we receive is completely sterile.


Training: We do have a training course which we advertise and sell on our site, this course takes place at a fully LHA certified studio. The LHA was also informed of the courses before we started doing them, and they approved them. We provide the equipment for the course and that is where our involvement ends with it. It would surely be a bit hypocritical of us to sell people equipment and not give them any kind of optional guidance? That said we advertise it and as such are responsible for every aspect of it. We make no claims whatsoever that once the course has been completed the person is then a professional artist, this would be a ridiculous claim. A good artist knows they are always learning and as the true old fashioned saying goes, "practice makes perfect". Similar to suggesting that because somebody has gone on a red letter day to drive a car round a race circuit where they get some driving lessons by a professional racing driver that the person after a few hours then becomes a professional racing driver. Like all things in life you never stop learning, and improving and to suggest that after 6 days somebody can learn enough to be a professional artist is simply ludicrous. There is absolutely no work done on human skin on these courses. None whatsoever, it is solely on Pig skin and this is only after the importance of hygiene and cleanliness is dealt with in a very detailed way. There are people that want to learn to tattoo, how many enquiries do you all get every day from people wanting to be an apprentice? People simply want to learn from professional artists. Rather than people attempting to tattoo at home, without any kind of introduction as to the dangers of doing so into a studio where they are taught the importance of hygiene and the dangers and risks of doing so. The last line on the description of the courses on our site states in bold and italics: ‘*NB: This course is instructional training on how to tattoo. By completing this course it does not automatically make you a professional tattoo artist. It merely stands you in good stead and gives you an insight in to what is involved in tattooing professionally.’


‘Knock Off’ Equipment: We do not sell Knock Off Equipment. All our equipment is bought through the correct distributors. Its as simple as that.


People are right in saying that tattoo studios are popping up all over the place at this moment in time. Similarly, studios are shutting down at the same time. Take our home city for example. You may have a tattoo studio in a prime location with mediocre artists, offering tattoos for £40-50 per hour, who are dead pretty much most days. You'll have a great artist, with a tattoo studio down a back st, in really uncommercial location, who charges £70 per hour, who is permanently booked up for 3 months solid. At the end of the day, people's artistic work speaks for itself. If you're a great artist, people will come to you from your reputation.


Getting back to our equipment, if we sold crap equipment, we wouldn't exist. The reason why Killer Ink is a growing company is because of the importance we stress on quality and service.


Thanks,


Matt

[Mr.Taboo]

We appreciate everyones opinions and would like to give our answers to points which have been raised on this thread.


Kits: Yes we sell Kits, the fact is people want to learn how to tattoo. If all the companies in the Western world (Europe, USA) stopped selling kits then the sales of kits would not simply go away. People are interested in tattooing and those who are artistic enough would like a chance to get into this industry If all European and American companies stopped selling kits then the sales would still exist, but would be completely direct from Chinese companies. As you know, there are already plenty companies in China that sell and ship kits around the world, often these kits cost approx. $60-70 and contain 50 bottles of ink, hundreds of needles and 6-10 machines. Obviously at these prices shortcuts on quality will have been made. The inks could contain anything, as could the needle solder. The equipment we sell fully adhere to all relevant legislation. The Ink is EU Res AP(2008)1 compliant as well as adhering to the relevant German legislation: Deutsche Tätowiermittelverordnung (BGBl. I Nr. 53 vom 27.11.2008). The needles are made from 304 Stainless Steel with lead free solder and are good quality, not splayed. There will undoubtedly be people that take the high ground and see it as a black and white issue, however we disagree, and believe it is a grey issue and try to be more pragmatic about it. Simply put we believe that people are going to buy kits anyway and that it is better that they buy safe equipment that adheres to the applicable legislation than buy it from elsewhere where companies may place less importance on the safety of the products. We carry all certification to prove all batches of disposable equipment we receive is completely sterile.

I read as : There are a lot of people fucking the trade over for money why shouldn't we make some money too , and we're giving them the right equipment it's sort of like people want to smoke crack so we'll sell them a nice pipe so they don't burn their fingers while their doin' it.


Training: We do have a training course which we advertise and sell on our site, this course takes place at a fully LHA certified studio. The LHA was also informed of the courses before we started doing them, and they approved them. We provide the equipment for the course and that is where our involvement ends with it. It would surely be a bit hypocritical of us to sell people equipment and not give them any kind of optional guidance? That said we advertise it and as such are responsible for every aspect of it. We make no claims whatsoever that once the course has been completed the person is then a professional artist, this would be a ridiculous claim. A good artist knows they are always learning and as the true old fashioned saying goes, "practice makes perfect". Similar to suggesting that because somebody has gone on a red letter day to drive a car round a race circuit where they get some driving lessons by a professional racing driver that the person after a few hours then becomes a professional racing driver. Like all things in life you never stop learning, and improving and to suggest that after 6 days somebody can learn enough to be a professional artist is simply ludicrous. There is absolutely no work done on human skin on these courses. None whatsoever, it is solely on Pig skin and this is only after the importance of hygiene and cleanliness is dealt with in a very detailed way. There are people that want to learn to tattoo, how many enquiries do you all get every day from people wanting to be an apprentice? People simply want to learn from professional artists. Rather than people attempting to tattoo at home, without any kind of introduction as to the dangers of doing so into a studio where they are taught the importance of hygiene and the dangers and risks of doing so. The last line on the description of the courses on our site states in bold and italics: ‘*NB: This course is instructional training on how to tattoo. By completing this course it does not automatically make you a professional tattoo artist. It merely stands you in good stead and gives you an insight in to what is involved in tattooing professionally.’

Taking away the "race" from the car explanation should we let people who never been taught to drive get behind the wheel ? Sure they may wreck a few cars and injure or kill a few people but hey eventually they'll get the hang of it. As far as the people want to learn and if they can't get a apprenticeship they might as well learn from us. Same excuse as Lisa Fraudsulo of TLC like your helping those poor folks who want to fulfill their dreams meanwhile the only dreams you're fulfilling are your own by selling kits and a halfassed course to anyone who has cash in hand , did it ever occur to you people there are reasons not everyone can get a apprenticeship ? Like maybe they aren't as artistic and talented as they and their friends think they are? Also the term "optional guidance" made me laugh and cringe at the same time.


‘Knock Off’ Equipment: We do not sell Knock Off Equipment. All our equipment is bought through the correct distributors. Its as simple as that.

5623Eclipse5624Danny Fowler


People are right in saying that tattoo studios are popping up all over the place at this moment in time. Similarly, studios are shutting down at the same time. Take our home city for example. You may have a tattoo studio in a prime location with mediocre artists, offering tattoos for £40-50 per hour, who are dead pretty much most days. You'll have a great artist, with a tattoo studio down a back st, in really uncommercial location, who charges £70 per hour, who is permanently booked up for 3 months solid. At the end of the day, people's artistic work speaks for itself. If you're a great artist, people will come to you from your reputation.

A lot of the public can't tell good from bad they'll go with the lowest price shop or a some jackwagon that bought a kit from some unscrupulous supply place.
I do like how you phrased this though basically saying that if someone's business has slowed down it's cause they suck not because scumbags are flooding the market with " I've got LA ink on blue ray " wannabes and their kits and tattoo school diploma's from their 2 week , or 3 day course. Tattooing out of their house cheap or for free , maybe pooling their resources with a few fellow wannabes and opening a shop cause they think its cool and they'll be like their TV idols.
Sure these clowns make for a lot of cover work but I and many others would rather work on fresh skin. Plus there is the health issue say someone opts out of some "optional guidance" and is sold a kit anyway and gives out some nasty diseases and causes a major outbreak traced back to tattooing they could ban it altogether.





Getting back to our equipment, if we sold crap equipment, we wouldn't exist. The reason why Killer Ink is a growing company is because of the importance we stress on quality and service.

Don't kid yourself you're growing cause you're cashing in on a trend selling to all these wannabe tattoo rockstars .
Fuck the trade let's just stuff our pockets with as much money as possible before the whole thing goes boom.
Coming 2012 Taboo Tattoo Supply and School - Kits Cheap, available with "optional guidance"- Our intensive 15 minute seminar, comes with Diploma , Window Sticker and Tee Shirt for only $5K !!!

[slicksteel]

Killer Ink-matt you come on here and say all that hype yet your site sells subpar junk bootleg copy china machines at a very large markup(these machines are all over ebay etc for 10-20 bucks. Here is a rip of a next generation coil,-renamed the rodar-http://www.killerinktattoo.co.uk/products/tattoo-gun-machines/killer-ink-machines/roder-liner-shader-tattoo-gun-machine/

A (http://www.killerinktattoo.co.uk/products/tattoo-gun-machines/killer-ink-machines/roder-liner-shader-tattoo-gun-machine/)nd plenty of other ones two that you guys have renamed.You carry subpar, footpedals clipcords, junk replacement coils. The vast majority of stuff you carry is low end junk except for the higher end rotarys and a few other items. Why not carry the best supplys you can find out to carry.Why not actually test the equipment out first that is offered to your company for resale before it is even sold to the public. Why not carry only the best so that people that want to learn will have gear that will actually last them a lifetime-We do not want cheap tirekickers in this industry that dont want to put a dime into their supplys and just milk the industry.YOU ARE HERE ONLY TO PROFIT OFF THE HARD WORK OF OTHERS OTHERWISE YOUR COMPANY WOULD NOT SELL COPYS AND SUBPAR JUNK!!
Do you think any other professional field would let all their supplies be sold to the public at large?
This is the last industry in the world to be truly regulated by its peers without to much goverment control and we want to keep it that way!!!



Dam tabboo you right fast-was typing at the same time.same exact thaughts!

[Killer Ink]

Hi,

I've just removed the 2 machines you've listed, with immediate affect. There are that many coil machines out there, we really didn't know that these frames were copies of other people's machines, so for that i apologise, we'd never intentionally want to sell copies. We're a young company and we're all believe it or not passionate about tattooing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you have expressed yours. We're obviously never going to see things on the same level unfortunately, so i'll leave it as that. Take care everyone.

Matt

[slicksteel]

It is realy up to professional high end machine builders and custom hand made builders to keep thier products of these type of supply sites as they only use your pro gear to help build a name and draw others to their site.
I suggest we make a list off builders that sell on these sites and of sites that claim to be here for us but will also carry bootleg items:
There are plenty of them on here right now!!!You know who you are!!!

[Mr.Taboo]

It is realy up to professional high end machine builders and custom hand made builders to keep thier products of these type of supply sites as they only use your pro gear to help build a name and draw others to their site.
I suggest we make a list off builders that sell on these sites and of sites that claim to be here for us but will also carry bootleg items:
There are plenty of them on here right now!!!You know who you are!!!

Good point the less knowledgeable would see well known good equipment and could make the assumption that the rest of the gear is of the same quality.

[slicksteel]

Hi,

I've just removed the 2 machines you've listed, with immediate affect. There are that many coil machines out there, we really didn't know that these frames were copies of other people's machines, so for that i apologise, we'd never intentionally want to sell copies. We're a young company and we're all believe it or not passionate about tattooing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you have expressed yours. We're obviously never going to see things on the same level unfortunately, so i'll leave it as that. Take care everyone.

Matt

Thank you that is a start but almost all china tattoo machines and power supplys are bootleg knockoffs of copyrighted products. Panther is a good china company that makes their own machines. I suggest if you realy care do a lot of research on products before you sell them-hell- higher me and i will make sure everything you sell is legit.

[gangstajay]

I thought this fella was gone from the forum.kick rocks !

[Mr.Taboo]

Wow just scrolled down a bit on his page and he has a forum , bunch of Kit buyers posting trial and error questions :

hi guys, can you tell me what the best size needle to use for a basic outline on a tattoo, and how do the needle size work , i.e is 1 small and a 9 is bigger , please help thanks

can some one tell me how deep to go down when tattooing

I'm considering buying myself a tattoo kit. I'm doing all my research just now and I can't seem to find any kits which include a left handed gun anywhere, unless I want to pay double the price of a kit. Is it possible for a lefty to use a right handed gun?

hi im very new to this also and have just started but need some advise, with so many needles up for sale what is a good all rounder for lining and shadeing as i dont see a tattoooist changing his needles all the time?

This Question: i.ve just fitted a new set of coils to one of my machines the orange heavy duty ones the problem im having is there seems to be excessive sparks between the contact screw and the front spring i.ve tried adjusting the contact screw but its just the same any ideas?

This Answer: The sparks are normal, due to the 10-wrap power. If you'd like to exchange for another set to see if you get less sparks then you're more than welcome to, although the sparks are not harmful at all...


Blind leading the blind.

[Inkslingers]

Again I'll ask...what the f*ck is the matter with you people? Speak up! I can't decide which is worse, that Killer Ink is doing what they are, or that they actually tried to defend it. There is no "grey area" when it comes to this issue. The only thing that was "pragmatic" to your approach with this, was your marketing. It all "sounds good" Matt (to someone that doesn't know any better), but that's where it ends. Do I really need to keep going with this? How much of your site do you want me to rip apart?

On the surface it could seem that the little show you are presenting is anything but bullshit, but the debate you offer to justify what you are doing is weak at best. Your argument of "if we didn't sell (kits) someone else would" does not work here. Taking the time to put a higher sheen on a turd doesn't change what it is, at the end of the day it's still a piece of shit. Your so called kits are interesting. I used the term knock offs in relation to members complaining about those that do this, yet after doing a small bit of searching I found that a good bit of your whole site is nothing but a knock off. Your kit..http://www.killerinktattoo.co.uk/products/tattoo-kits/professional-tattoo-kit-vi-rotary-expert/ reads exactly like a few others I've found http://ilsonink.com/#/tattoo-kits1/4548918760 and http://unique-ink.yolasite.com/online-store.php. What's really interesting is that the first, (Ilson Ink) also runs a tattoo school also http://www.tattooacademy1.moonfruit.com/. Your response to this might be that they of course copied your's, etc., but since they've had their "academy" up or that it is simply a description given by the manufacture of these kits? The latter would not be the case, since you choose to use a picture of a kit that is not even sold by you, at least not in it's presented form. The power supply unit that is pictured in your main photo is direct knock off of an Eikon Unit, but it seems that you actually supply a different unit with the kit. Something you may want to correct down the road.

Now lets talk about who is actually doing the instruction in your little tattoo school. The webpage noted on your site is under construction (http://www.manchestermedia.com/ink-credible/), but I was able to find a few examples of this guys fine artwork. is this the same Ink Credible? Of course it is, you can't deny that that pink color you picked to paint your studio which is posted on both sites. 56255626 In it really worth taking the time to bash this guys work? Not really, it just should just be noted that someone should at least first learn how to tattoo before they even think about teaching someone else what they don't know. I fully understand this part of it though. An artist with any kind of integrity would not touch what you are doing or lend their name to it. For that matter, any artist who got actual skill would not have to supplement their income with a scam such as your's. It seems that the same can be said of all the artists mentioned in this post so far though. Although Ilson Ink may not have anything to do with you? They are also teaching when they are in need of being taught 56275628.
An analogy for your school would be like someone going to a scratcher hoping to get a nice piece of art. Who's to blame? The scractcher for doing tattoos, or the person going to them? It's 50/50. The scratcher in most cases has no business tattooing, but the people they tattoo are just as much to blame because it normally meant that they were paying 1/4 the cost of going to an artist in a studio (who's putting out nice work). People are always looking for short cuts. Your little school prays on this human nature. Members on the site will complain about how a supply house is offering kits and/or selling copied machines, but then turn around and buy needles (just an example) from them because it means saving a few dollars. My view on this is simple, these places would not be in business if we all refused to buy from them. The line has to be drawn. Dragonfly Tattoo Machines (again, just another example) are sold through Killer Ink..f*ck buying Dragonflies then! Or any other product that is sold by supply houses that sell to the public! this has been the point (or one of them) I have been trying to make to members here. You can't cry about scratchers or how someone has copied your build and then support places like this by buying from them. at least if you do it's a bit hypocritical don't you think? If you'll take the time to post threads on this forum crying about these things, why not take the time to shoot manufactures like the Dragonfly and point out the fact that they are selling to places like Killer Ink? It's all well and good to Boycott TLC, so why not boycott anything that is bringing harm to an industry that you claim you love so much? That or just shut the f*ck up with crying about things like you don't have any control over, because you do!

[elbo]

Again I'll ask...what the f*ck is the matter with you people? Speak up! I can't decide which is worse, that Killer Ink is doing what they are, or that they actually tried to defend it. There is no "grey area" when it comes to this issue. The only thing that was "pragmatic" to your approach with this, was your marketing. It all "sounds good" Matt (to someone that doesn't know any better), but that's where it ends. Do I really need to keep going with this? How much of your site do you want me to rip apart?

On the surface it could seem that the little show you are presenting is anything but bullshit, but the debate you offer to justify what you are doing is weak at best. Your argument of "if we didn't sell (kits) someone else would" does not work here. Taking the time to put a higher sheen on a turd doesn't change what it is, at the end of the day it's still a piece of shit. Your so called kits are interesting. I used the term knock offs in relation to members complaining about those that do this, yet after doing a small bit of searching I found that a good bit of your whole site is nothing but a knock off. Your kit..http://www.killerinktattoo.co.uk/products/tattoo-kits/professional-tattoo-kit-vi-rotary-expert/ reads exactly like a few others I've found http://ilsonink.com/#/tattoo-kits1/4548918760 and http://unique-ink.yolasite.com/online-store.php. What's really interesting is that the first, (Ilson Ink) also runs a tattoo school also http://www.tattooacademy1.moonfruit.com/. Your response to this might be that they of course copied your's, etc., but since they've had their "academy" up or that it is simply a description given by the manufacture of these kits? The latter would not be the case, since you choose to use a picture of a kit that is not even sold by you, at least not in it's presented form. The power supply unit that is pictured in your main photo is direct knock off of an Eikon Unit, but it seems that you actually supply a different unit with the kit. Something you may want to correct down the road.

Now lets talk about who is actually doing the instruction in your little tattoo school. The webpage noted on your site is under construction (http://www.manchestermedia.com/ink-credible/), but I was able to find a few examples of this guys fine artwork. is this the same Ink Credible? Of course it is, you can't deny that that pink color you picked to paint your studio which is posted on both sites. 56255626 In it really worth taking the time to bash this guys work? Not really, it just should just be noted that someone should at least first learn how to tattoo before they even think about teaching someone else what they don't know. I fully understand this part of it though. An artist with any kind of integrity would not touch what you are doing or lend their name to it. For that matter, any artist who got actual skill would not have to supplement their income with a scam such as your's. It seems that the same can be said of all the artists mentioned in this post so far though. Although Ilson Ink may not have anything to do with you? They are also teaching when they are in need of being taught 56275628.
An analogy for your school would be like someone going to a scratcher hoping to get a nice piece of art. Who's to blame? The scractcher for doing tattoos, or the person going to them? It's 50/50. The scratcher in most cases has no business tattooing, but the people they tattoo are just as much to blame because it normally meant that they were paying 1/4 the cost of going to an artist in a studio (who's putting out nice work). People are always looking for short cuts. Your little school prays on this human nature. Members on the site will complain about how a supply house is offering kits and/or selling copied machines, but then turn around and buy needles (just an example) from them because it means saving a few dollars. My view on this is simple, these places would not be in business if we all refused to buy from them. The line has to be drawn. Dragonfly Tattoo Machines (again, just another example) are sold through Killer Ink..f*ck buying Dragonflies then! Or any other product that is sold by supply houses that sell to the public! this has been the point (or one of them) I have been trying to make to members here. You can't cry about scratchers or how someone has copied your build and then support places like this by buying from them. at least if you do it's a bit hypocritical don't you think? If you'll take the time to post threads on this forum crying about these things, why not take the time to shoot manufactures like the Dragonfly and point out the fact that they are selling to places like Killer Ink? It's all well and good to Boycott TLC, so why not boycott anything that is bringing harm to an industry that you claim you love so much? That or just shut the f*ck up with crying about things like you don't have any control over, because you do!


I have to agree and i will certainly not buy any products from killer ink the training course just shows they are greedy bastards who dont give a fuck about tattooing...
I ask every member to boycott killer ink and im pissed off that they are even on the forum....I havent been on here much as ive been to busy with other things but looking at the way things are going on here,it may be time to visit alot less!

Killerink actually trying to defend the tattoo course shows what a fucking low life supply company they are.....

[OwlsDen]

Yeah I am down for booting them. You have my vote. I don't want to support any tattoo school.

[hendricksonart.com]

If you cant spot one of the top selling tattoo machines over the last five years then you obviously know nothing of this business nor the culture of it. Of course you want to make money off of something the wrong way when you don't know enough about it to know better. This is fucked.

[tugg]

its like Dragons Den in here, lol,the only reason you have introduced yourself to this forum is in the hope to sell some more rotaries.I don't think you'll find any love in here.
and for that reason ,"I'm out" I won't be investing in your company.

[elbo]

Man the photos of work by the guy training people are a real laugh!...absolute shit!!! no decent tattooer would agree to work in a training school...the guy is scum .

[OwlsDen]

Man the photos of work by the guy training people are a real laugh!...absolute shit!!! no decent tattooer would agree to work in a training school...the guy is scum .

He should have hired that Tattoo Chasity girl that was talked about last night. Haha then we could all at least have a good laugh.

[Inkslingers]

I've only begun to touch the surface of what this clown has going on...but for anyone in here that is anywhere near being on the fence with this issue, like maybe you don't see the harm? this was taken directly from Killer Inks webpage, what's so f*cked up is they actually let the post remain up like it's not a problem?5629 Love this next one..."We don't sell the bad Chinese crap, we only sell the good Chinese crap"5630

[OwlsDen]

I know that this thread has a lot of feathers ruffled. I see an easy solution so this doesn't happen again. Why have distributors on here? builders yes, indicative distributors with their own product line yes ( t-tech, eikon, etc ). But end it there, if you are just a distributor/ reseller then I personally don't see a reason to be on here other than marketing. I don't think this forum is for marketing. I think it should be for the people that build and use quality tattoo equipment. Granted it isn't my place to say, this is a decision for the administration, but I feel confident that they have our best interests in mind. Let's all cool down and hear what their take on this is.

[OwlsDen]

I've only begun to touch the surface of what this clown has going on...but for anyone in here that is anywhere near being on the fence with this issue, like maybe you don't see the harm? this was taken directly from Killer Inks webpage, what's so f*cked up is they actually let the post remain up like it's not a problem?5629

WTF? Encouraging minors... This is disgusting.

[Mr.Taboo]

I know that this thread has a lot of feathers ruffled. I see an easy solution so this doesn't happen again. Why have distributors on here? builders yes, indicative distributors with their own product line yes ( t-tech, eikon, etc ). But end it there, if you are just a distributor/ reseller then I personally don't see a reason to be on here other than marketing. I don't think this forum is for marketing. I think it should be for the people that build and use quality tattoo equipment. Granted it isn't my place to say, this is a decision for the administration, but I feel confident that they have our best interests in mind. Let's all cool down and hear what their take on this is.

This makes a lot of sense.

[Ta2GeezerUK]

Hi,

I've just removed the 2 machines you've listed, with immediate affect. There are that many coil machines out there, we really didn't know that these frames were copies of other people's machines, so for that i apologise, we'd never intentionally want to sell copies. We're a young company and we're all believe it or not passionate about tattooing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you have expressed yours. We're obviously never going to see things on the same level unfortunately, so i'll leave it as that. Take care everyone.

Matt

Bollocks!! Your tryin to tell us that You are passionate about Tattooing and yet you had 'NO Idea' that the machines your selling are counterfeit! Every other Guy in this business on this site has sure heard of Danny Fowlers Time Machine supplies. ... Obviousley not quite that passionate about our industry then to do some prior research!

[Ta2GeezerUK]

its like Dragons Den in here, lol,the only reason you have introduced yourself to this forum is in the hope to sell some more rotaries.I don't think you'll find any love in here.
and for that reason ,"I'm out" I won't be investing in your company.

Lmao! .. Duncan Banatyne strikes again!!!

[Killer Ink]

Really didn't mean to cause such animosity here, i just wanted to introduce ourselves. LHA - local health authority. Just to let you all know, i've removed the tattoo training section of our website due to everyones feelings on this forum. Its a new week tomorrow and i'll look at all aspects of our product range to see what we can do to better ourselves as a company. Its geting late in the UK now so i'm clocking off, everyone out in the States have a good day and everyone take care. Thanks, Matt.

[Mr.Taboo]

All this talk about being passionate about tattooing and all that jive and then not knowing jack about the trade, so what exactly is your backround in tattooing ?
Watched Miami Ink a few times ? Have one or two tattoos ? What ?

[gangstajay]

Again I thought they kicked this ass muncher off the page.. hey buddy Kick rocks

[Ta2GeezerUK]

Well as good as your intentions may be by now removing your Tattoo training courses from your website Its still not gonna make things right as the fact is you obviousley thought this was the right way to earn your dollars in the begining and F**k what anyone else thinks. It is only by being on here you get the general consensus of what those in the Tattoo community think about what you do. I wouldnt bank on getting any buyers off here any time soon No matter what you now do.

[Gabetexas]

Well then....

[Administrator]

I was AFK for most of the weekend and Alie was working all weekend. Starting a fire on here is not the way to try to get my attention or Alie's. I think I have posted this before but there is a REPORTED POST BUTTON! USE IT! it sends a message to all the forum staff to alert us. The inmates do not run the asylum, you don't pay anything to be here and there is currently no advertising even.

I have no issues with distributors being on here as we have a few that have been very helpful to many of you. You are welcome to not support his business. I am not impressed with the way they conduct things and try hard to stay ethical with who's coffers I line. You are getting mad about their presence here but not about the folks that are supplying them. If you have such an issue why have you not contacted the builders they distribute for and ask why they sell them.

For the record I have blocked probably over a dozen other supply companies from signing up because they did not support any of the products that many of the members here support. When I looked at website initially I saw that they where resellers of Stigma, Dragonfly and Bishop.

[Inkslingers]

I was AFK for most of the weekend and Alie was working all weekend. Starting a fire on here is not the way to try to get my attention or Alie's. I think I have posted this before but there is a REPORTED POST BUTTON! USE IT! it sends a message to all the forum staff to alert us. The inmates do not run the asylum, you don't pay anything to be here and there is currently no advertising even.

I have no issues with distributors being on here as we have a few that have been very helpful to many of you. You are welcome to not support his business. I am not impressed with the way they conduct things and try hard to stay ethical with who's coffers I line. You are getting mad about their presence here but not about the folks that are supplying them. If you have such an issue why have you not contacted the builders they distribute for and ask why they sell them.

For the record I have blocked probably over a dozen other supply companies from signing up because they did not support any of the products that many of the members here support. When I looked at website initially I saw that they where resellers of Stigma, Dragonfly and Bishop.

If you'll read my post, and others like it that I have put up...you'll find that I for totally disagree with builders like the Dragonfly selling their machines through suppliers like Killer Ink. I've already sent all 3 of the companies you mentioned an email. Will it do anything? I don't know. I know what would, if other...many other artists stepped up and boycotted any supply house that sold to the general public and/or conducted themselves like Killer Ink. It has worked in the past.

I for one don't have a problem with distributors being on this site, I don't agree with the other members who have said something along those lines. But the line should be drawn with Killer Ink. Here is a supplier, who KNOWINGLY sells to customers as young as 14 years of age. If you have taken the time to look through their site I'm sure I don't need to argue the position I have taken about them.

It's clearly up to you (The Administration) what to do about this guy, if anything, but as I said, if you support places like Killer Ink, don't expect me to support you.

[Administrator]

I appreciate your actions to back your words. I was watching the thread when it first went up but was mostly off line for this past weekend. When I talked to Alie about it she wanted them gone, I wanted to at least have a chance to answer people's issues to be fair.

[Alie K]

Ok. I am going to make the final post on this thread before I lock it down.

As much as I would like to be on this forum and check on things for several hours a day, I am first and foremost, a Tattooer. I take my job to heart, and try to take care of the needs of my clients. I can't blow off drawings or take time at work to muck around on the computer to monitor things 24/7. Tattooing is my job, this forum is something I care for in my spare time.

We have many new members, and there are many posts - some of which move quite quickly. As I may have stated before, on occasion, I miss something. I get many, many new signups a day, and I delete the majority of them in order to keep our group a happy family of professionals. The admin helps me out, but we are only 2 people, and in order to try and make people happy by letting them have access to the site as soon as possible, we may miss something when going over a person's profile. Not every forum does this, but we do.

Seeing people arguing on here really bothers me. I hate trolls as much as the next person, and I try to nip things in the bud before they get out of hand when I come across them. I would like to remind all members that there is a 'report post' button at the bottom of each and every post. It's in the grey bar, on the left hand side above the smiley face. It looks like a little triangle. Please use it if you see angry things going on, or if there is something you have an issue with! There are times that it's the only way I know of something going awry.

We have several distributors on the forum. So far, they have been very helpful regarding information on their products, as well as giving us advance notice of new items before the general public knows about them - nice stuff like that. When I originally came across this particular supplier, I saw someone who sold machines like the Dragonfly, Hawk, Bishop and Stigma - not the shitty crap that the unsavory suppliers generally carry. I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt as many legitimate builders don't want their equipment able to be accessed by kitchen wizards. What I didn't know, was that they ran a tattoo school - something I do not agree with or promote.

Since many complaints seem to have reached this distributor, they seem to have removed the 'black spot' from their website. It's difficult to say whether or not they plan to continue with their tattoo courses. It appears to be a popular trend in England. Perhaps not advertising this online will deter people from using that 'service'. There are many distributors who sell 'good' products alongside crap. If I personally, don't agree with their ethics, I don't patronize them. There are companies like Mithra who are very popular. I don't hear an uproar about them selling tattoo kits. In the end, this is a company that sells legit stuff, as well as the lower-priced Chinese 'junk' that is still popular with people.

Tattoo schools, scratchers, legitimate artists doing dog portraits in people's kitchens are all VERY touchy subject matter with all of us on here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, all I ask is that you use your inside voice when sharing them. It's not always as easy to get equipment in Europe, with the VAT and everything, so I don't necessarily have a problem having this supuplier on here - it gives European members an alternative to using the "other supplier from England who everyone complains about already".

Allowing them to be on the forum is not me supporting their practices, but I am allowing them to have a voice. I appreciate that their tattoo training program is no longer linked on their site, and I personally hope it stays that way (but that's just me).

This forum is mine. It cost me money to create it. It has grown exponentially in the last year, and now costs me more money on a monthly basis to keep it going. Right now, it is my gift to you! I'm sure everyone can agree that they have found at least one or two useful tidbits of information on here. From a new place to get their favorite machine, or a place to get a machine that neither they nor their friends have ever heard about, to sharing some information, learning a new technique etc. If you want to complain, please use Twitter. There are great suppliers on here with very unique products that I personally never would have found out about if I hadn't allowed them to be on here, or if my new internet 'friends' had not directed me to them. I may end up upsetting people by some of my decisions, but before you get your panties in a knot, please consider those facts before you storm away.

As always, I feel that I reserve the right to eliminate troublemakers from the site - however I never make any rash decisions before sitting down to discuss it with the forum staff. I will always make the executive decisions regarding the community. For my own and for everyone else's sanity, I cannot allow the inmates to run my asylum. If anyone has an issue with this, or even this post, or what has gone on in this thread, I welcome you to send me a private message so that we can discuss it.

Please remember that this is a tattoo forum. Yes, it's hitting the slow period for most of us, but if all we do is sit on the computer and complain about things and get angry at each other, we will stay not busy. Get to work on that painting, or teach yourself that new medium to work with or fix those coils you've been meaning to put up on ebay. Start creating and post your works! Keep it creative and positive, and move yourself forward before the kitchen wizards we don't let on here end up catching up and teaching you a thing or two.


Thank you all for your continued support and understanding.