MAXON motors vs. MABUCHI vs. other brand...

[No Iron Machines]

HELLO

i currently use a MAXON motor for my ROTARY 5 WATT power, pretty happy with him, i sty test few different model from MABUCHI, and some are good, before i always scared to use this kind of motors becouse they common cheap motor, but some model work pretty cool, im very surprise about this

for my opinion the big size motor, with more than 5 WATT power they very strong, the problem is the size, much more bigger respect MAXON, this is the big problem, my rotary have STY-UP SPRING, so need more power or the motor don survive so long, i don like ROTARY machine when the needle stop outside tube, i don think is good idea, is retard for me, but are much more easy to build of course, and is possible use smaller motor with less power

is also true that small size motor from MAXON are very delicate, to much performance for the size, is like a small CAR ENGINE with lot of HP, don go to far...

some of u guys know exactly the model of MABUCHI used on NEO-TAT, would like to test also this one, maybe is already some of the one i sty test now, im not sure

i sty test also some NICHIBO motor from TAIWAN, same as MABUCHI, they good when is big size and more than 5 WATT, also some CITIZEN MICRO from JAPAN ,very good... one NAMIKI from JAPAN, awesome staff but very expencive and i have also a PORTESCAP motor, 23 mm diameter, amazing motor but so fucking expencive...

im waiting also from a GERMAN motor name GRAUPNER, look good, but they made in CHINA or TAIWAN 100%, but maybe they work good

[OwlsDen]

http://www.faulhaber.de/ great German motors and can be slightly cheaper than maxon. I have a Neo Tat and a treasure chest. The treasure chest has a faulhaber motor and possibly a little more power. I can line as fast with it as a coil machine. It really is wonderful.

[slicksteel]

yes faulhaber are very storng motors-for size and have a good power range-cary also uses a bit faster one in the rapier tos-which work great.I talked to them and they had good customer service and got back to me right away.

[No Iron Machines]

FAULHABER is great motor, sure, GERMAN quality, they have a distributor in ITALY, but is more expencive than MAXON in ITALY, have a lot of power but little bit less RPM respect MAXON, i need try test one of them too, sure

now im surprise about MABUCHI....

[No Iron Machines]

HEY, the RAPIER have STY UP SPRING ? i mean the needles always stop inside the tips, or whatever ?

[OwlsDen]

Do you have to pay import taxes on things shipped from Germany? I can't remember right now but there is a website that sells faulhaber motors for about 40€ incl VAT. I can try and find that site for you if that sounds interesting to you.

[OwlsDen]

http://www.sb-modellbau.com/index.php?cPath=67_209

I believe this was the website for faulhaber motors.

[No Iron Machines]

HELLO, thanx for de advise, don need pay IMPORT TAX in EU comunity, most of this DISTRIBUTORS, don have stock, u order from them, they order form the main source and delivery to u, so maybe they put up the price much more

i buy the MAXON motor for the ITALIAN OFFICAL DISTRIBUTOR, also, they don have stock, u oredr, they order from the SWISS main office and ship to u, FUCK ALL THEM , EVERYONE CAN DO BUSINESS LIKE THIS, I DON LIKE THIS WAY, NO ONE WANNA HAVE STOCK ANYMORE, BULLSHIT

but from them the price is exactly the sam eas the offical MAXON website

[Bishopbyname]

What's an acceptable rpm on a motor?

[Dan Kubin]

I would stay away from Nichibo. I tried some out that were a Mabuchi comparable to the ones I use, and the burned up within a day. very poor quality, and didn't live up to the stats that were posted.

[Dan Kubin]

also, I have not had an issue with the needle stopping in the down position.. maybe it's just something to get used to (if you are used to coils), but I don't ever stop my machine while having it pressed on someone. I personally don't see the practicality in comparison to needing a bulky, high powered motor to power the machine.

[OwlsDen]

Dan, I think the stop position issue is more something for people that run off the tube. I have always hung the needle out so it isn't an issue for me anyways. I could see how always stopping in the down could be useful in setting needle depth. Just my two cents.

[rjdadio]

I posted this a year ago....I still like the mabuchi motors over the maxon. In my application the maxons wore out in a short time and the mabuchis outlast the maxons many times over. I have Mabuchi make the motors to my specs and are built on the rk370 model. The kysan and nichibo motors were junk. I'm currently working on another machine and have some faulhabers to test where this machine will not have the loading on the motor shaft the same way my neos do.....so we will see.

[No Iron Machines]

HELLO

ACCETTABLE RPM is between 9000 to 12000 NO LOAD, some people use 14000 or more for DIRECT DRIVE ROTARY, i think is really a lot, becouse suppose the COILS MACHINES run maybe at 90 to 120 HZ with needles and rubber band, LINER or SHADING depend of course, have one procedure to compare RPM of ROTARY to HZ of COILS machines, i don remenber now, need ask to my fahter , is an electronic technic, him know

DAN, about NICHIBO, is almost same as MABUCHI or other brand of this kind of motor made in TAIWAN, i sty tesT now, is good when they are big size and have more than 5 WATT,
try NICHIBO MS3N-2880, 12000 RPM, operatin range 6-12 VOLT, 5.90 WATT, duty cycle 64%, DON WORRY , FOR ROTARY MACHINES U NEVER GONNA BURN, survive same as MABUCHI, make the test yourself and see

all this kind of motor MABUCHI, NICHICO, CITIZEN, and many more made in ASIA, the factory say they have 5000 HOURS of live, all the same, u can ask , they have different DUTY CYCLE, mean the % when the motor work and when need stop
so immagine u use 3 hours at day, 365 day at year, the motor gonna survive about 5 years, is good

sorry my english not so good, i try to explain better, hope all u understand, the DUTY CYCLE or MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY is espress on %, so mean that this motors cannot run continuosly, have some time for work and some time for stop , i mean, that duty cyle is 50% on the motor, mean that the motor run example 2 hours continuosly and after need stop for same 2 hors

the big difference between expencive DC MOTORS same as MAXON, FAULHABER, PORTESCAP, NAMIKI, and some more , respect normal massive production DC MOTORS same as MABUCHI, NICHIBO, CITIZEN , and many other brand is exatly the duty CYCLE, mean, the quality of the component inside are more strong on the quality motor, so they have more DUTY CYCLE, the MAXON i use on my rotary have 84 % of this, is much more than any other motor, mean, is possible run much more longer and stop much less time respect simple motor, without problem of burn, this is not something im invented, is the TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS, u go to the website and ceck

but is also true that ROTARY TATTOO MACHINE don need run constantly, always have the stop time, so the motors always run and stop, run and stop, u never gonna arrive to break the DUTY CYCLE of them,

also, more power have the motor, less is strees, becouse u use maybe just half of this power, so the motor work more easy and survive more

almost any DC motor with around 5 watt or more is possible use good on ROTARY MACHINES, that u have ROTARY machines direct, without the STY UP SRING, u can use very fine a 2-2.5 WATT motor, no problem

the big problem is the size of DC MOTOR on the different brand and quality
example the MAXON MOTOR used on STYGMA or SWASHDRIVE or also now on the new SPEKTRA is the model 216000, very great motor, diameter 16 mm, lenght 25.4 mm, 12 VOLT, 4.5 watt power, 11200 RPM, 75% DUTY, DON EXIST IN THE MARKET ANY MOTOR LIKE THIS, SMALL WITH THAT POWER, for have 4 or 5 watt on MABUCHI u need have 25 mm diameters or more and around 30 or 32 mm lenght, this why MAXON so expencive or FAULHABER

the MAXON i use on my rotary is the 110123, 15 VOLT, 10300 RPM, 5 WATT, 84% DUTY, 22mm diameter, 32 mm lenght , im very happy with him, is strong motor, i like, maybe little bit expencive but im happy

im very surprise now on testing MABUCHI and the model of NICHIBO, becouse they work pretty good and have the same performance of MAXON, they little bit bigger but is ok, son i gonna comeout with a new ROTARY model, much smaller and lighter than one already build, and maybe i move to MABUCHI, i wanna see, maybe i gonna use a big motor more than 6 WATT, so u have all the power u want and gonna survive a lot a alot, i gonna work a lot on the frame, much smaller and lighter possible, we see...

im already sty draw on CAD a couple of different ROTARY, maybe i gonna done more than 1 new model... i also don wanna build 500 dollar of machines, is to much expencive, i mean TATTOOS astart become to much expencive, ljust like the ELITE ARTISTS can spend 500 or more dollar for a machine, in many country the tattoos is cheap and have some great artist also, go in south america, many many good artists but the price of tattoos is not same as UAS or EUROPE,
build expencive machines sound like just wanna have rich tattoo artists than buy them, i dono maybe im wrong but i consider this point of view also,

[No Iron Machines]

HEY RJDADIO,
your NEOTAT machine is great, can u post the SPECIFICATIONS of your motor, please? for compare to the others on market

DIAMETER, LENGHT, RPM, VOLTAGE, WATT, DUTY,

NEOTAT and VIVACE they have the same motor ? booth machines have the STY UP SPRING ?

the guy from BISHOP they use your same motor ?

GREETS...

[rjdadio]

I am using the rk-370 series motor and the one I use is only 3 watt at max efficiency. The motor is 24.4mm in diameter and the body is 30.8mm in length. 12 volt motor with a no load speed of 8900-9000 rpm. I test the motors in a machine that sits and runs for no less than 1000 hours.....no stop for a rest.....it just runs and runs. The Maxons I have tested that had similar specs developed bearing problems after about 300 running hours.....so the Mabuchi out did them in life.
Yes the mabuchis are made in china or similar country, but they are held to Japanese QC standards. It has been fun trying to communicate with the Japanese engineers! Yes a 5 watt motor may be unstopable, but I don't really see the need for a motor this big......it pulls more current to run.
I'm not sure what Franco is using in his bishops now, but he did use the same motor when he started doing his.
I use a spring that pushes the glide into the up posistion, but it is for more than just returning the the needle up.

I went into making the NeoTats so that they were not expensive to buy. I don't see the need to "gouge" people.....if I can make it and make some money at the same time. What can be better?
I know what it takes to get into the tattoo machine business!
I made machine parts for other companies for years until I desided to give it a go myself.....actually the main company I was doing work for went behind my back and started getting the things I came up for them made in China!

This project put me in poverty and I just about lost it all in borrowing money with credit cards and morgaging my properties just to pay the bills. I almost gave up on it......thinking I am quiting this, walking away and cutting my losses. I worked at extra jobs, I sold stuff that I had accumulated or collected for years to keep the lights on. If you think I am trying to sell you a BS sob story....it's not, it's all true. I had set what I called the "drop dead date" that I was going to pull the plug on the project. I had put together a new resume and sent it out to companies that I hope would hire me. Then someone listened......The good Lord or???.
Now a days my office wants me to raise the price of my machines and I say NO. I will keep doing what I'm doing, making good, affordable tattoo machines.
I will keep working to make better machines....where I can.

I have a wonderful wife and family that stood behind me and kept me going......or I would not be on this forum today.

Sorry for going off the subject.

[Dan Kubin]

Great story, Ray!

[Bishopbyname]

Great attitude Ray! My Vivace is one of my daily drivers. I'll be after a short stroke very shortly.

[rjdadio]

I'm an old Fart....so I'm good for a story! ....thought I was losing it going off topic....but I do that.

What I talking about?

Damn this CRS.....

[OwlsDen]

I know it is off topic, but I would love to hear that story of that machine you designed and built for some company. I assume I know exactly which one that is. Ironicly enough I almost bought that machine when I first started an apprenticeship back in the 90s. I could be wrong.

[No Iron Machines]

COOL, MAN GREAT REPLY U GIVE TO ALL... ALWAYS GOOD HAVE OPINION OF SOMEONE WITH MORE EXPERIENCE

i sty test now some MABUCHI, and relly good staff, i sty scared about low WATT, becouse need much more power for run ROTARY with STY UP SPRING, when start the motor gonna force a lot, i think more WATT = LESS STRESS, but your motor have 3 WATT and your machines run very great, so is pretty good aroun 3 watt power

i gonna test some MABUCHI with less power and i see, thanx for your advise...

[rjdadio]

I hate to admit to you folks......but that company and I went way back, back to when their catalog was about 8 pages long. Then with every new catalog they printed after that, had one of my machine designs on the front cover. I haven't seen their last catalog, but they had become books that must cost them $15 or more to print each.....getting warmer?
The same company that I made these parts for, worked out the details for, designed and gave to them for nada....just because I was making their stuff and if I could continue to make their stuff.....I would have a good continuing customer.
Silly me......always believing in people.....
The same grips I have talked about....I made in the tens of thousands for them. This was my "bread and butter" job. Well, they just stopped ordering them. Now they could never keep track of their purchasing, so I would just run them and stock pile the grips at my place.....again good customer and it is easier for me to do a thousand versus 100. So when they would call to place the order....I would have them on hand and ready to ship.

I don't hear from them for some time....and knowing their sales better than they do..... I expected to have sold them more by now.
So I call em...they say "oh,business is slow" Ok, I can buy that. But now it is going on a few months and still no grips, but they have an order for parts of one machine that I am still making for them.
So it's time to make the delivery and I'm like family to most of the guys and gals there, so I would always just walk in and proceed behind the counter, say hi on my way thru. I'm carrying the first box of parts and pass by the isle where the grips are.....and behold, thousands of grips that are not mine! At this same time, the purchaser catches a glimse of me and darts around the corner to avoid me.
I set the box down on a receiving bench and walk right into the GM's office. I ask Walter...."so what's the deal with the grips??"
He goes on to tell me that he could purchase the grips for 4 cents apiece cheaper than from me.....I kinda get aggitated with this! I say...."so, after all our time working together you don't think you should have called me and told me you could get them cheaper? and that I wouldn't be given the chance to meet or beat the price?" ....I would have beat the price.
Then comes.....
The famous quote......I will never forget! he said....."We want to be the Walmart of the tattoo industry"
My response was...."Well, that is a hell of a thing to aspire to!"......and walked out.

The end.

Want to talk about "off subject?"


I know it is off topic, but I would love to hear that story of that machine you designed and built for some company. I assume I know exactly which one that is. Ironicly enough I almost bought that machine when I first started an apprenticeship back in the 90s. I could be wrong.

[rjdadio]

Oh...I forgot.... The grips were from China

[rjdadio]

Maybe just a lighter return spring?

COOL, MAN GREAT REPLY U GIVE TO ALL... ALWAYS GOOD HAVE OPINION OF SOMEONE WITH MORE EXPERIENCE

i sty test now some MABUCHI, and relly good staff, i sty scared about low WATT, becouse need much more power for run ROTARY with STY UP SPRING, when start the motor gonna force a lot, i think more WATT = LESS STRESS, but your motor have 3 WATT and your machines run very great, so is pretty good aroun 3 watt power

i gonna test some MABUCHI with less power and i see, thanx for your advise...

[OwlsDen]

Thanks for the story, it is sad that our industry has come so far just to be so terrible.

[Cesar]

Oversaturation of any industry brings more people trying to be the "Wal-Mart" of the respective industry. Same thing goes with shop where I've seen guys try and make it a franchise. SMH

[Cesar]

OH and thanks for all the info guys, it's fascinating to read all the info on the motors. That way it's easier for one to make an informed choice towards what machine will work towards your particular style. I've been thoroughly educated. Thanks!

[No Iron Machines]

Lesson nuber one : Don't underestimate the other guys greed...

[caryncbreeef]

sorry to hear that story. I started a body jewelry company in the basement of my tattoo shop in 92. The same thing happened to me, a customer, a good customer, took my whole catalog and samples to China and knocked them all off. took my wholesale price (of the entire industry) from $9 to $3 overnight. Destroyed the quality of almost everything produced. within 2 or 3 years they were selling items for less than MATERIAL COST. I guess with the currency manipulation and government subsidies how else? Then the owner of the Chinese factory that was stealing from me came to visit me! Tried to sell me his garbage. showed me pictures of his factory, with 1000 girls, all under 24 years old, they got $0.50 a day for a 12 hour shift. his entire monthly payroll was just a bit over double of mine, of 22 people, yet my guys and gals got health insurance, workmans comp, etc. He ruined the industry, sorry but the Chinese have a deep hate for the colonizers - so stealing our intellectual property is nothing to them. Ask hollywood about theft! sorry for the rant but this stuff gets me HOT under the collar.

[Sage Oz]

Wow. There really are times that some people really deserve to be beat the fuck down.

[flatline]

Wow Ray, The roller coaster of life eh? Keep doing what you are doing. Their are not enough people like you in the industry. A lot of cut throat in business in general. Appreciate the info, and Love the Vivace. My color work looks so good now, makes my lines look like shit!!!! Hope you hit a central eastern convention sometime. Would enjoy shaking your hand sir.

[jesoner79]

trust me franchises in our business dont work ive seen it first hand lol from the poor house to a mansion and back to the poorhouse it doesnt work