Swiss machine/german evolution type on Ebay.

[peter clements]

One of those obscure Swiss sled slider type rotaries on the bay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWISS-ROTARY-TATTOO-MACHINE-/290666979460?_trksid=p5197.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26otn%3D12%26po%3DLCA%26 ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6215496630530614669

[skinmech]

yeah the dude had 2, sold one a couple of weeks back, was a really helpful guy to talk to, and certainly knew his stuff..

[OwlsDen]

Yeah I would love to try one of these but will most likely get the German Evokution first.

[skinmech]

Yeah, both use the same "sled mechanism" but the vice on this looks , pretty sweet,however, it would also add to the weight..I tried to find out what motor was in this, all the Dude knew it was Swiss, so probs very good.

[OwlsDen]

I used to know the website for that machine. Can't remember if I found it doing a search in German or English. But I believe the motor is a maxon, as well as that you can either autoclave the whole machine or detach the motor and clave the rest. Regardless I cant find the site and could be entirely wrong.

[spoonertattoos]

looks like a better version of the evolution for sure.

[alexander]

here no ?
http://rotary.oyla13.de/cgi-bin/hpm_homepage.cgi
but I am sent 2 or 3 Mails and Zero response... ?
possible is not functional ? I dont no!
good evening!

[Deakon]

I sell the German evolution here- www.therotaryportal.com

[Sekt]

yawn

[Sage Oz]

yawn

Hehe. My feelings exactly. It needs a serious redesign, maybe not mechanically but ergonomically. It looks like it should be called the German devolution. It's aesthetically so boring and minimal to look at, like it's made it in a garage out of spare parts. Not German uber high tech like I would expect. Though I can't say that I've ever ran one(I hear they are fine working machines), but the looks alone are enough to send me elsewhere. It's a competitive market these days and unless it is balanced on all levels, be that reliability performance ergonomics price and yes beauty, then it is destined to prey fate to Darwin's theory.

[tatu richie]

i have one that ill trade...

[Sekt]

well its supposed to work better than this link TheRotaryPortal.com (http://therotaryportal.com/) which for me doesn't work at all. So it'd have to be better than that. I mean for Gods sake even a bit of plastic wrap would be something. I couldn't proudly drag that out of the cabinet without blindfolding the client first. they'd think they were being tattooed with pirated parts from a dremel =[

[Sage Oz]

well its supposed to work better than this link TheRotaryPortal.com (http://therotaryportal.com/) which for me doesn't work at all. So it'd have to be better than that. I mean for Gods sake even a bit of plastic wrap would be something. I couldn't proudly drag that out of the cabinet without blindfolding the client first. they'd think they were being tattooed with pirated parts from a dremel =[

Hehehe so true. I was trying to be diplomatic sounding for a change, but you said what we were all thinking.

[slicksteel]

It looks like a gun for sure! lol
if they lowered the price to about 85.00 they would sell like hot cakes for sure.Its got about 15 bucks worth parts to it. had one.

[Deakon]

well its supposed to work better than this link TheRotaryPortal.com (http://therotaryportal.com/) which for me doesn't work at all. So it'd have to be better than that. I mean for Gods sake even a bit of plastic wrap would be something. I couldn't proudly drag that out of the cabinet without blindfolding the client first. they'd think they were being tattooed with pirated parts from a dremel =[
They do come with the motor wrapped just as the rotary works machines, and plenty of (bites tongue to stop the name drops!) extremely accomplished artists use our machines daily. We seem to have a vast majority of people that want machines that look pretty, but the problem is that to make the machines look like a centri or dragonfly would mean the final price of the machine would be that of a centri or dragonfly rather than a quarter of the price. Something I have said before. I'll have to add new pictures of how the machines look when posted out to the site, the pictures we got from the builder I agree are not the most appealing.

[skinmech]

So..Would you rather Dance with an Ugly Person dressed in Designer Gear, or a Model in a Potato Sack......Make your mind up....It is a case of putting in ink, in a way that suits your style, not your Budget...

[OwlsDen]

Do you buy a hammer because it looks good or because it drives in nails? I buy a hammer to hammer nails in.

[Sage Oz]

So..Would you rather Dance with an Ugly Person dressed in Designer Gear, or a Model in a Potato Sack......Make your mind up....It is a case of putting in ink, in a way that suits your style, not your Budget...

I just want Scarlett Johannsen wearing my pajamas. Is that do-able?

Seriously though why not have it look a bit nicer AND work well? Because it's cheaper? Kinda goes against my whole 'value of quality and aesthetics' shpeel if I break out equipment that looks like it was bought at a bazaar. I'll spend the extra dough on a nicer lookin ride. Right? Most everyone here is driving cars that cost thousand$ if not tens of Gs and thousands more every year in insurance and gas and repair and the differences couple hundred bucks saved on our beloved tools of the trade is a big deal?

[alexander]

LOL, a great machine is TOP but with a MODEST machine 1 good work is possible.... FORTUNATELY ;)
I tattooed my machine long dearer never exceed (for now, lol) .... $250 !!!! $600 one machine can be more sympathetic, more technical, more refined, possible ?! make me a Oleg Turiyansky ? Hmmmm, I do not think...... :D But a more option ? 1 extra in more ? Possible ... ?
But I hope one day have a $600 machine ;))
My friends with a Ciferri of $400 not do better that my Glyn Flew £100 !!!!! even on healing !!!!!! The Feeling is important .... and I saw the tattooist Chinese with Coil Machine Kilyn worked at TOP ! ! ! YES, I not joke... Kilyn machines are 50 or $ 60, not more :
http://www.kylintattoo.com/machines.asp Much artsit in the World are not American or European and much work with a minimum tools. The Feeling, the real technic level of artist, the dollars in pocket or the egocentrism is diferent for every guy!!!!!
I know tattoo artists motivated by machines..... and I know others artists motivated by the tattoo.
Sorry for my bad English and my long Post!
1000 respect has all.

[Deakon]

I just want Scarlett Johannsen wearing my pajamas. Is that do-able?

Seriously though why not have it look a bit nicer AND work well? Because it's cheaper? Kinda goes against my whole 'value of quality and aesthetics' shpeel if I break out equipment that looks like it was bought at a bazaar. I'll spend the extra dough on a nicer lookin ride. Right? Most everyone here is driving cars that cost thousand$ if not tens of Gs and thousands more every year in insurance and gas and repair and the differences couple hundred bucks saved on our beloved tools of the trade is a big deal?
Cars come in all different price brackets, so do tattoo machines. We sell plenty of evolutions, if you feel better spending more that's fine...we have some new machines on the way, secret for now though ;)

[slicksteel]

The difference alexander is Glyn flew machines and Kylin are made very well with great prices! I have a glyn f and have friends that have kylins(will buy one soon) and they are good builds.
But the evolution is not-it has bad machining, poor quailty motor,major design flaws etc. This machine should honestly sell for about 50 bucks as a starter rotary. Deakon just cause very good tattooers use them does not mean they are well made for the price. Of course Deakon you will always defend their sub standard quality because you sell them and want to make a profit off those sells.

[Deakon]

I defend them because I use them every day and personally believe them to be amazing machines. I understand you don't like them, which is fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm going to leave the thread alone as its only going to end up in an argument.

[alexander]

WOW, I am a little disappointed of comments :confused: it's rare on the Forum that artists here critical 1 rotary machine... I hope just this is "relative" comments because a good friend has me yesterday ordered a German Evolution ! Respect.

[OwlsDen]

WOW, I am a little disappointed of comments :confused: it's rare on the Forum that artists here critical 1 rotary machine... I hope just this is "relative" comments because a good friend has me yesterday ordered a German Evolution ! Respect.

For the price I doubt you or your friend would be disapointed.

[slicksteel]

Yes ,if it works for you that is all that realy matters in the end!:D

[alexander]

Thank you very much OwlsDen & Sleeckstil !
many people critical for nothing .. I see people criticizing the machines they never try? impressive!
When I read a post that begins with = "I do not know the machine BUT I THINK THIS IS NOT GOOD" ..... I do not finish reading the Post ! This is the same if I say I am not a Painter ties but I will explain to you HOW you should PAINTING..... WOW, No Comment !
For me the purpose and exchange information here, not to kill a reputation builder without knowing the machine. After the feeling of people is different. People love beer other people hate beer ! lol ! This does say not that beer is rotten. My friend JD (who commanded the German Rotary) think that machine is very good and TIMO and knows his business ! I agree with JD ! No problem ! JD can do a test review online !? JD is 100% trust in TIMO !
= and if I can I will test the machine with great pleasure!!!
big-up for the German Rotary and TIMO !!!
good week has all!

[Sage Oz]

[QUOTE=alexander;36049][FONT=comic sans ms]Thank you very much OwlsDen & Sleeckstil !
many people critical for nothing .. I see people criticizing the machines they never try? impressive!
When I read a post that begins with = "I do not know the machine BUT I THINK THIS IS NOT GOOD" ..... I do not finish reading the Post !

I hope that you don't think that I was attacking the machine's abilities! I said specifically, from what I've gathered, that it is a nicely performing tool, often especially with modification. I couldnt use it without spending a day modifying and rebuilding it if only to make it not an eyesore. And rotary works brass no gives are only just a bit more expensive but even with a big can looks like a well built machine as is. A keeper. I was only speaking my honest mind about the german's lack of aesthetics and how it relates to my perspective as a potential buyer, real marketing information that I would have think you'd value, but hey party on selling those ugly(hey it's just IMO) but decent machines to the newbs who can't afford "nicer" machines because they waste their money partying. Is that how you market your tattoos? "Cheap quick and ugly, but hey it's put in there really well?"

[alexander]

;) I work since longtime and it's my problem, my buizness.... the tattoo and the machine it's 2 differents points.
I f for you 1 good machine do 1 good Tattooist = for me, NOT ! the technique is IN guy IN artist and not IN machine....
With 1 Aaron Cain machine you are Aaron Cain ??? No...
Each person exprim each expresses what she wants ! I am not criticizing your work, trying to do the same with my work. OK? A machine is a machine only, not 1 miracle...and 2 friends has me tattoo with Tebori !!!!!!!!!! Tebori is not a MACHINE my friend !!!!!!!!! ZERO MACHINE with Tebori !!!!!!!!!! their work is rotten because Tebori is not GNE7 ? do not be ridiculous and mix things that have nothing to do .... if you do not like German Evolution, it's your choice. Do not mix years work with a simple desire to own expensive machines. In countries much tattooists do wonders with the machines at 50€ ... You are tatoued in India ? or Costa Rica ? or other poor conutry as DAKAR in Senegal ? Me = YES ! And actualy I am in France (France is Rich country, Pfff, impressive !) must travel to see it ! I have it tattooed in much countries since 1999. Criticizing is very easy. Knowledge is more delicate.... And a Public Forum = sitting behind a keyboard all is very easy. Take care of yourself, if you do not like German knows that in many countries. many only dream of owning German tatouers Evolution!
Out of respect for these artists without dollars in his pocket. it is important to be respectful. Bine know behave in a virtual world is the minimum here.
TOTAL RESPECT FOR Timo Builders ... the years of working on their machines .... Total respect for the people of the Forum here AND FOR YOU TOO my Friend !
Time lost on Post here... if German is very bad the better is of POSTED directly on MP of TIMO, for me the critic Free with all person on Forum Virtual is lillte... if for me German machine is shabby = I contact Direct Timo, Point ! I not critical Timo in Public? it's my conception of Tattooist work. If Aaron Cain creat 1 machine of SHIT, I not Post in Public that Aaron Cain is Shabby but I contatc Aaron and I discut WITH Aaron directly by Respect with the others guys on Forum.
Good Week my Friend and Post finish for me ;)
Has soon on other Post Dude...
Respect has all !

[tatu richie]

i have a germa evolution for trade if anyone is intrested, its a very smooth solid machine yet very odd and cheap looking, just not for me, its just sitting and waiting for a trade...

[Sage Oz]

Dude you seem to keep misunderstanding me, I said nothing bad about the quality of your tattooing or the abilities of the machine. I know it's possible for a good artist to create beautiful work with a machine that doesn't cost an arm, and of course a $600 machine won't make a poor artist into a tattoo God....
I know I live in a financially rich city so maybe you think I'm a snob but I'm not wealthy and struggle to afford quality equipment as well as most guys but if I gotta sell an extra goat to make a nicer machine purchase I'll do it. If a nice new $350(mid price/high quality) machine is really too expensive an investment for any artist, maybe they are in the wrong business or just not ready in life to be a tattooist. If we are that cheap with machines then cheapness is easy to justify in other aspects of tattooing, and then it becomes a joke...

[Sage Oz]

I apologize if you feel my opinions cause offense to you my intent is not too argue with you but only to express my opinion as a concerned artist. I joke a lot but I take tattooing seriously and want to evolve as an artist and like to see the rest of the industry that deserves it by proof of the quality and artistry of their work evolve as well. Those that are talented and convicted enough in their efforts will do well. Initial investment in quality supplies is vastly important and necessary because of the medium of human skin. Using cheaper tools to do what we do seems crazy to me now. The coil
machines I learned on in the 90's while current are so antiquated and primative in their design compared to the newest crop of innovations and refinements. These are the tools that are responsible for transforming our intent into existence all day everyday. $400 over a 10year lifespan is pretty cheap per day, less than 1 disposable tube. Making our equipment cheaper only makes it way to easy for people that enter our industry and under-appreciate the value of quality and steal work from deserving artists and make clients permanently less as happy as they could be with lesser tattoos that may not heal as fast or well as they could. If you're too cheap to spend enough for quality equipment then find a cheaper job to do. Tattooing no matter who you are or where you live is damn expensive to do if done to high standards! Plus you can always sell it for close to its cost so invest in a quality machine please if you're gonna do it do it well!!!!!!

[Sage Oz]

Hey Richie, please keep ads for machine trade/sale in its own post per forum rules so we don't lose our privileges, thanks

[tatu richie]

well ive not posted it, i just mentioned but i understand.. np :)

[Sage Oz]

Thank you bro ;)

[Deakon]

I apologize if you feel my opinions cause offense to you my intent is not too argue with you but only to express my opinion as a concerned artist. I joke a lot but I take tattooing seriously and want to evolve as an artist and like to see the rest of the industry that deserves it by proof of the quality and artistry of their work evolve as well. Those that are talented and convicted enough in their efforts will do well. Initial investment in quality supplies is vastly important and necessary because of the medium of human skin. Using cheaper tools to do what we do seems crazy to me now. The coil
machines I learned on in the 90's while current are so antiquated and primative in their design compared to the newest crop of innovations and refinements. These are the tools that are responsible for transforming our intent into existence all day everyday. $400 over a 10year lifespan is pretty cheap per day, less than 1 disposable tube. Making our equipment cheaper only makes it way to easy for people that enter our industry and under-appreciate the value of quality and steal work from deserving artists and make clients permanently less as happy as they could be with lesser tattoos that may not heal as fast or well as they could. If you're too cheap to spend enough for quality equipment then find a cheaper job to do. Tattooing no matter who you are or where you live is damn expensive to do if done to high standards! Plus you can always sell it for close to its cost so invest in a quality machine please if you're gonna do it do it well!!!!!!

Woah there! What you are saying is in effect "all machines should be expensive to stop people who dont care enough from tattooing". In every industry there are low end, mid range and top range products, people want choice. We sell a lot of machines to coil users wanting to step into the rotary world who would previously bought a stealth for example.
Just because you might buy a dragonfly doesn't mean you are going to be a better artist or turn into one overnight! Not to mention the fact that you are implying our machines make shoddy tattoos that heal badly. I do hope you have tried a German Evolution pretty extensively before trying to destroying its reputation!

[Sage Oz]

How is what I am saying being misunderstood? Am i not writing in proper and concise English? I believe that if you reread my posts you will see that I have not said anything negative about the abilities of the German. For the third time now I will say that everything I have heard about the performance of the German is good. I do believe though that all machines and tattoo equiptment in general should be refined and of the highest quality. Our equipment should be built to a very high medical standard and use the best materials and design reasonable. I am not, once again implying that a more expensive machine will make anyone a better artist, however they WILL make your tattoos better, hurt less, heal faster, be more vibrant, your customers happier and application more comfortable confident easy and fun. And yes I do think our machines should cost a fuckload and be accessible to pros only and not done on a budget. The evolution looks like it was designed in the 80's and could use a facelift and better ergonomics and nicer hardware and if it costs 10cents more every time i use it during its life to have those improvements, then that's worth it. A $400 machine used an estimated 3000hours over a 5 year period(2hrs a day X 300days a year) is a whopping 14cents per hour!!!!! Half a beer less a day can pay for a pair of centris. And then you can resell them for $400 apiece after you've made $100,000 or more from them first. Not a bad deal but not cheap enough for some people apparently. We charge $100-200 hour and you guys think that 14 cents of that paid to another tattooist that made an amazing piece of technical art for you to use is just too expensive, that the tattoo marketplace NEEDS a machine that only costs 4 cents an hour to run?!? Please am I asking too much for builders and vendors to give a shit and stop trying to make the fast easy cheap buck?!?

[Deakon]

A more expensive machine does in no way correlate to how well a tattoo heals and definitely doesn't mean a more vibrant tattoo. That will be down to application. As long as the machine runs nicely it doesn't matter if it costs £100 or £500, I use machines that work well for my particular way of working.
If you feel more comfortable knowing that the machine you bought cost a lot of money, that is entirely up to you.

We are certainly not after making a quick buck, the rotary portal is a small site run by myself and Brendan Mudd in between tattooing 6 days a week. There will be in the very near future some very exciting announcements coming in the way of new stock though and I'm trying hard to keep quiet about it!

[Sage Oz]

Good to know, evolution is a good but sometimes a painful thing. Nice to know that you guys are on the up and up and open to listen to opinions, even if you might disagree with them. I'm not trying to bad mouth the rotary portal or the makers of the german evos, I just don't understand the rational behind using or building or selling machines that are inexpensively built, the math behind it easily supports the negligible slightly higher cost to run a higher quality made machine.

[alexander]

I wish to rectify the shoot.
I defended the machine because two people and me have to work with German. the machine is not problem. Except a machine which heats much JD (a friend) and obviously ZERO guaranteed in Box ? the problem is of transmission with the manufacturer. Very difficult to have answer... no attractive and very difficult in the contacts…
because I say has Friends (and JD too!) how German Evolution is GOOD ! and my friends or Friendly JD contact Builder… but Answer zero ! Communication zero ! Guaranteed ZERO…
I include/understand the position of the Sage Oz…. (and I make excuse if my Popos were little hard! but we discussed in the MP ;))
And I also understand that people want to pay a more expensive machine one personalized contact !
The machine is not the problem.
best wishes.

[skinmech]

How is what I am saying being misunderstood? Am i not writing in proper and concise English?

LOL..No you are not...:p

[Deakon]

I'd like to point out that Alexander bought direct from the builder and not from myself. I personally haven't had a problem with the builder, but I guess that may be because I buy a lot of machines from him!

[alexander]

LoL, it's good for you... normal. if I order 50 or 100 machines the Feeling is diferent ! I wish.... ;) it's a minimum attitude.
( If you have 1 engine replacement German is great for JD ! )
thank