Stealth and disposables

[clintonshane]

Seems every time I try to use a disposable tube in my Stealth machines...the needle raises up on me when it exits the tip. I'm bending the shaft of the bar slightly, like you would in a Neuma, rubber bands are in the proper position (I know this because they're not breaking every 45 seconds anymore) , Im not running Balls Out...I don't understand why the needle flutters up and down no matter which brand I use, yet none of this happens when I use a stainless steel tube. Im sick to death of cleaning these things, 16 years is long enough. Anybody have any ideas?

[Alie K]

What brand of disposables are you using? Many disposables are a softer plastic and if you use a machine with any weight to it, that will happen. It's the weight of the machine pulling back and bending the stem of the disposable tube. The only ones that I have found that don't do that are the ones from Good Guy Supply. They are SUPER rigid. Have you tried those?

[clintonshane]

The tubes Im using right now are from World Wide. They're pretty rigid. Before that I was using those ones with the nice fat rubber grip. I got them through Whitehall but they are available from a lot of supliers. those are fairly soft. almost a hard rubber. Strange that a 3.5 oz. machine could do that. I dont know good guy supply at all. Spearman has supposedly developed a plastic tube that is as close to stainless as anyone has come. They're up on their web site. Im going to try them out at the A.P.T trade show here in Kansas City at the end of this month, but I'll look at Good Guy as well. Thanx Alie

[Alie K]

I haven't heard of the Spearman ones - maybe there is no distributer for them up in canada. Seriously, a light stealth machine shouldn't bend a tube like that. I have used the good guy ones with my stealth machines with no problems. I'd say to check out your tube vice to see if that was the problem, but if stainless tubes are not a problem, I'd say it was your grips. The Goodguy ones have that nice spongy grip to them AND they are a clear plastic.

http://www.goodguysupply.com/product_images/m/967/30mm1.5_inch_Disposable_Tubes__74681_std.jpg

Here is another product they carry that helps eliminate needle flutter (they are autoclavable and reusable)

http://www.goodguysupply.com/product_images/x/391/pictips__69429_zoom.jpg

[clintonshane]

Both of those are available through tatsoul/spearman. And that is exactly the tube I was talking about trying out, only with a slightly different grip. So you like those? What do they run through Good Guy? They're $20 for 25 through tatsoul.

[tattooedpirate2]

I find with rotary machines there is a lot more cycles per second than coil machines and this causes the needle rise. If you are refering to rounds and liner needles instead of bending the bars try and flip the needle over with the needle on top of the bar. This helps the problem a lot, also you can get good coverage with slower speeds. Unlike coil machines a rotary punctures the skin more times per second than a coil machine at any speed.

[Alie K]

GoodGuySupply disposable tubes are $20/15 tubes, and those tips seem to be sold by the piece at $5.50 (they are autoclavable, hence reusable).

Now, I saw a video on Youtube that was very interesting regarding the speed of machines. A coil machine was run with a steel tube. You clearly heard a distinct pitch to the machine. Then, that same machine was run with a plastic disposable tube. The 'lesson' behind the video was that plastic tubes make your machines run slower. When the machine with the plastic tube was run, you again could clearly hear the pitch, and it was lower! I'll have to find it and make a post....

[The Limey]

Do you bend the needles down as well or just the bar? My N2 used to flutter especially with rounds until I tried the set up in Lets be realistic. Also unless WTS has changed something their tips were pretty loose, I've used 7 rls in their 5 rounds and still got good ink flow so that might not help needle stability. Flats and mags weren't an issue though so if you have problems there I'm not sure what to suggest.

Forming plastic can be done several ways but as it normally requires heat its possible you got a batch that warped past normal tolerances while cooling (or were made for peanuts somewhere in Asia with appaling QC) and aren't letting the needles sit properly in the tube.

[specialtechnique]

solutions to needle jumping... 1- use ONLY disposable tubes with a SUPER FAT SIDEWALL. unimax and tatsoul come to mind. on the stealth, the guillotine tube vise makes a plastic tube BEND DOWNWARDS when you tighten it... stare at the tube in the vise and you'll see what i'm talking about.. look where it pushes on the plastic of the tube. you have to buy tubes that don't crush. 2 - bend your bar AND needle group downwards when using disposable tubes. how much depends on how crappy your chinese disposable tube is :] 3 - i can't say this enough... LOOSEN YOUR GROMMET AND RUBBER BANDS AS MUCH AS YOU CAN STAND.. DON'T USE TAPE OR PAPER TOWELS...

[Alie K]

Hmmmm I've always used paper towels instead of grommets. Haven't had a huge issue with needle skipping, though. OH! Check the tube vice on that stealth of yours. My friend had one and it was not at a perfect 90 degree angle. The metal base was surprisingly easy to bend. Maybe your machine isn't quite lined up? They are a reeeeeeeeally cheap machine....

[SAACADELIC]

I only experienced that problem when using a round liner tip.

[JohnnyChaos]

If you are refering to rounds and liner needles instead of bending the bars try and flip the needle over with the needle on top of the bar. This helps the problem a lot, also you can get good coverage with slower speeds. Unlike coil machines a rotary punctures the skin more times per second than a coil machine at any speed.

someone else recommended that to me and I've only recently been trying it and to be honest it does help. Seems odd putting the needles in backwards but what ever works.
As for cps and puncture ammount. I'm not sure I agree wit that. Using stigmas stiches per min readings and voltage range you can work out that it would be doing around 150cps at about 10v and I rarely turn mine past 9v

[nathan bauer]

+1 for the tatsoul wrath tubes. I have been reluctant to switch to disposables,because i never found one that didnt flex and rob machine power. Im sold on the wrath tubes. very comy with the softer grip too. And no spinning the grip is adhered to the tube!
Nathan