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peezie
09-04-2012, 10:43 PM
This is a earlier prototype to test for proof of concept. Angled cam with piston assembly which has an adjustable return spring up top. Rubber covered bearing rides on the angled cam and stroke can be adjusted with increase of speed but must also be matched by the correct tension of the return spring. Stroke can also be adjusted by adjusting the spring loaded bearing assembly which rides on the angled cam. The closer to the center of the cam, the shorter the stroke, the further out, the longer the stroke. The movement is unique in that it has a dead blow action as opposed to the motor pulling the needle back within the second half of the revolution. Some people have described this as forward give. Noise and consistency issues caused for the scrapping of this idea. The noise came from .001 inches of up and down play of the maxon motor shaft. Majority of the noise is from the shaft hitting the bottom (or the top in this case) of the motor. Machine runs quiet when ran upside down. Thrust bearing could've been used to possibly solve this problem but the consistency issues were a big issue as the machine would run differently upright as compared to sideways. And Yes, the power supply is an eikon psu and not a knock off. This concept was dropped before even being completed into a fully functional tattoo machine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Dk22EfdWs

Eturnus
09-04-2012, 11:09 PM
Sounds scary...

tatu richie
09-04-2012, 11:27 PM
eeek

serial1313
09-04-2012, 11:47 PM
Well Peezie, I think you might learn a lesson here shortly. Usually when someone posts a "new or different" machine on here, people start knowing everything about your machine that they have never used. They start ripping & tearing @ you almost on a hourly basis. Ask Mike from Centri about the warm welcome his machine got when he showed it on here in the begining. Hopefully I'm wrong, but you are already getting comments on a machine that is dead & that will never be made. You can only image what happens when you try to be the new nice machine builder & you unveil your finished prototype. Not saying anything bad about Eturnus or tatu Richie, but I read the shit that people on here gave mike from Centri about his machine in the beginning, man it was ruthless. Now his machine is definately considered to be a top of the line machine on this forum period.

slicksteel
09-05-2012, 12:02 AM
Cool concept!-I bet if you can come up with something like this your other idea will be great! trying new thinks is whats its all about-sometimes they work sometimes they dont ,but we surly learn something new in the process! :)

Tullin
09-05-2012, 12:03 AM
I think if you could get that machine to run smooth it could be a good one based on the size and balance you could get out of it :D Reminds me of the DART prototype

Eturnus
09-05-2012, 12:59 AM
Just sounded scary is all. Just thinking about how my first time clients would react to the sould. I really like where it is going though. And i know that .001 inches of play is a bitch to fix. You definitely sound like you know what your doing. This would be a prototype to keep working on. Correct me if im wrong it sounds like an adjustable swash??

vodu
09-05-2012, 01:24 AM
I like the concept BUT, the noise is something to work, after i quit my coils, i never, said never, want that noise in my ears again. I think, less noise, the clients can handle more time. More time, more money and a well made tattoo.

Sent by the Devil using a vessel, one galaxy S2 and tapatalk 2

Sage Oz
09-05-2012, 01:32 AM
I like the concept BUT, the noise is something to work, after i quit my coils, i never, said never, want that noise in my ears again. I think, less noise, the clients can handle more time. More time, more money and a well made tattoo.


Sent by the Devil using a vessel, one galaxy S2 and tapatalk 2

Agreed! Once you get spoiled with quieter rotaries it's hard to go back, so noise is a working factor. Though a bit of sound can be a good thing...like a running diagnostic feedback of sorts, just like a coil, you can hear if it's doing what you want or if there are issues...

elbo
09-05-2012, 01:36 AM
Agreed! Once you get spoiled with quieter rotaries it's hard to go back, so noise is a working factor. Though a bit of sound can be a good thing...like a running diagnostic feedback of sorts, just like a coil, you can hear if it's doing what you want or if there are issues...

Yeh the noise has to be reasonable....I loved my inkjectas but the noise really pissed me off! in the end i couldnt stand it and moved onto other machines...i think the inkjectas were louder than my coils!...they worked a treat but were too damn noisey!...

slicksteel
09-05-2012, 02:14 AM
I don't mind a well tuned coils sound even if its up there in volume but a loud sounding rotarys just has a annoying sick sound that gets on my nerves.

Tkocevar1
09-05-2012, 02:23 AM
Ssssshhhhhh were tattooing

Sage Oz
09-05-2012, 02:41 AM
Ssssshhhhhh were tattooing

Lol, reminds me in my youth i once met a very cute girl at an ihop that was either seriously crazy or had tourettes. Couldn't stop saying "shssssh this is not a library!" in poorly voiced Indian phonetics.... ;)

vodu
09-05-2012, 03:38 AM
Agreed! Once you get spoiled with quieter rotaries it's hard to go back, so noise is a working factor. Though a bit of sound can be a good thing...like a running diagnostic feedback of sorts, just like a coil, you can hear if it's doing what you want or if there are issues...
i agree Sage, but every machine has his own noise: louder, quieter or no noise...i guess i´m training my ears to hear the needles hitting the skin...lol

Sage Oz
09-05-2012, 04:08 AM
Definitely nice to have a machine that runs dead silent. My priority of course Is how well it does it's intended job, if it works perfectly AND it's silent hey frosting on the cake, but i can happily live with a tiny pleasing buzzing hum after years of loud coils. I think some rotaries need a bit of patience,for example I've noticed a recent change in a my HM Santa Maria, it's quieted down quite a lot now that it's broken in. It was very similar to a coil sound for a while, especially when i stepped on the gas. Great machine btw...
I've noticed some higher quality machines are just a bit loud at first but take a dozen or so hours to seat themselves then they purr like kittens. Low quality machines just get louder and louder as they fall apart!!! lol

vodu
09-05-2012, 11:46 AM
In the next 10 years the builders will launch their quieter machines with mp3 sound, so we can choose wich sound we want to hear, coil, motor, Enya, or dolphins on the sea

Sent by the Devil using a vessel, one galaxy S2 and tapatalk 2

peezie
09-05-2012, 04:23 PM
I thought the first 2 posts were conservative actually. I think the machine sounds kind of messed up if you ask me lol. Clients would definitely feel uncomfortable hearing this machine in my opinion. This first picture shows the bottom which would've had a hinged door for easy access. With a turn of the spring loaded hex screw you can have a longer or shorter stroke depending how close you are to the center or edge of the angled cam.
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This picture shows how the piston assembly. It can be pushed down for adjustment with a hex key.
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Here is the angled cam which in essence is similar to a swash plate.
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Piston assembly rides on the angled cam and stroke length can also be adjusted through speed. Basically, the machine needs to be tuned to run properly. At full voltage with low tension on the piston assembly you get a lot of skipping. As I said, this concept has kicked the bucket and I did learn a lot through the process and hope anyone looking to develop something similar can learn something from this experience also.

Jack Steel
09-09-2013, 06:49 AM
nice stuff , but i think it's weird nobody said anything about changing the direction of the motor
the windings on these types of motors to put them horizontal, so the axial play goes front to back
in this design you'll never be able to get the hickups out of it , this design needs a brushless design with ballbearing shaft , not glidebearings like the most common maxons have ...
just my 2cents! ;)
ps. looks cool though

ckjr
09-09-2013, 07:11 AM
This is what you get when the hyper and dragonfly make a baby. I like this and hope you continue with it.

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darkness
09-14-2013, 09:13 AM
any news on it ?

peezie
09-16-2013, 02:49 PM
You are correct Jack. This machine has gone through a bunch of changes and even has a spinoff machine from the things I've learned developing it. This machine is being tested by myself and some local artists from 2 local shops and is completely under wraps. Their are some features which aren't new to tattoo machines in general but done in a way that hasn't been done before. These are earlier pictures during development and aren't completely reflective of what is in the hands of artists now testing them. Their are a little over 10 machines out being tested. Pretty close to finishing these up and I've only had to make minor changes so far.
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This picture has some old components that were tested and have since been scrapped.
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Final bodies made for testing and have been in the hands of my friends at 2 local shops for the past month.

gangstajay
09-16-2013, 03:26 PM
well I wish you best on this and hope you get it figured out

peezie
09-17-2013, 12:28 PM
Thanks Jay. Hope I do too.

punisher
09-17-2013, 01:17 PM
They look awesome I want to see more on these
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peezie
10-11-2013, 01:23 PM
Just wanna give a little update to this machine that I have been working on full time the last 2 years. I am changing the drive system away from the gears I was using (for now, may use it for a steel version). I was using steel bevel gears at a 1:1.8 ratio to use a maxon motor at the higher torque curve range. This allowed for better low and high speed torque. Instead of running the machine from the 6-8.5v range it runs best from 10-12v range which is the motors maximum efficiency. The machine tattoos great and everyone loves them but it made a bit of noise that I ultimately couldn't live with which might have been taken care with a different material for the gear housing. Most artist didn't mind the noise which wasn't that loud. Way quieter than a coil. I am now using a different drive system that I had hoped to use on a different model machine. The new drive system still uses a vertical motor with a piston assembly. This new system is currently being tested by the same people including myself. Runs a lot quieter and the stroke can be adjusted while the machine is running. Stroke range is 2.5mm-4.5mm. No angled cam, no swash, and no gears to sum it up. Thanks for your interest.

gangstajay
10-11-2013, 01:34 PM
cool keep at it

Eturnus
10-11-2013, 01:47 PM
video comparison?

punisher
10-11-2013, 02:02 PM
Excited about this build been following this thread closely really liking where this machine is headed!
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peezie
10-31-2013, 02:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZQ3Fw8gYo&feature=youtu.be
Both machines sound quieter in person but this video will give you an idea of the sound difference between the 2.

sacredsouls
10-31-2013, 08:14 AM
I like we're this is going. Keep it up dude. I read everything and seen that the stroke is adjustable and the screw is for adjustable hit or give correct? I like the overall design

peezie
10-31-2013, 02:13 PM
Newest and probably the final version of this machine does have adjustable stroke 2.5mm to 4.5mm and is adjusted from the bottom by a screw. Adjustable give and runs quieter than these 2 prototypes. No swash, no angled cam, and no gears. No plastic either. Pure metal.

fkirons
10-31-2013, 09:35 PM
Newest and probably the final version of this machine does have adjustable stroke 2.5mm to 4.5mm and is adjusted from the bottom by a screw. Adjustable give and runs quieter than these 2 prototypes. No swash, no angled cam, and no gears. No plastic either. Pure metal.

Good job man! the Conic gear system is a great choice.
Try machining them in Delrin or similar polyacetal to reduce noise and wear. They will also mate better and give you more allowance of alignment.
Digging it. Try not to show too much prior launch. You are listening this from someone that suffered the consequences of reverse engineering really quick (and not necessarily from china!)

peezie
11-01-2013, 12:39 AM
Good job man! the Conic gear system is a great choice.
Try machining them in Delrin or similar polyacetal to reduce noise and wear. They will also mate better and give you more allowance of alignment.
Digging it. Try not to show too much prior launch. You are listening this from someone that suffered the consequences of reverse engineering really quick (and not necessarily from china!)
I hear you on that. Your experience is one of the many reasons the machines were stripped down to bare bones. The actual functioning machines look a lot different with all the actual parts installed. I was modifying off the shelf gears which is why I really didn't want to go that route. The new system is much better and I make every piece myself now except for fasteners. If I'm ever able to machine my own gears than I probably wouldn't hesitate to go that route in the future. I did like the gear ratios.

peezie
11-01-2013, 12:51 AM
Just so everyone knows, I'm not a machinist by trade. I'm a tattoo artist who builds machines. Valiant Metal Works is a machining facility I set up to build machines a little over 2 years ago. I was originally suppose to release my line of coil machines but decided to do R&D on rotaries. I felt I can offer something better in a rotary as I had insight to building coil machines. I still plan on releasing a line of coil machines but I thought the first machines I should release was bad ass rotary that ran like a coil machine. I'm a one man show for now and I design and mfg everything myself for now. Just a little insight on where I'm coming from.

No Iron Machines
11-04-2013, 09:30 AM
Very interested stuff, compliments, i always think how can a vertical motor make move the piston, is something like a swash that move piston here ????

Is cool

peezie
12-20-2013, 01:53 AM
I posted this on facebook earlier and thought I should update this thread as well. And to comment on your question No Iron Machines, no, not swash driven.
Don't mind posting these pics as the final machine is something that is a lot different. These were test machines out of a batch of 20 machines I have out for testing and just got these 2 back from a local artist as I'm closing out the testing phase for closed testing and will do a public testing within the next 2 months and final release soon after. Again, these are test bodies and do not reflect what will be released but is similar. Public testing will open up soon and will be limited and sold at a discount and are fully functional finalized machines. Meaning, you will get the finalized version and not these test versions. 2 piston assemblies pictured here. 1 adjustable piston and 1 solid piston which has benefits of accelerated mass for solid striking. You'll get both pistons. Anyone interested send me a pm of your email address or contact me through pm. Sales are to professionals who provide proof. Thanks for your interest.
232042320523206

mattmillerink
12-20-2013, 02:23 AM
That's a tiny machine for sure

jasonadelinia
12-20-2013, 05:37 AM
Will it push carts??

darkness
12-20-2013, 08:02 AM
very clean design and good placement of the RCA - its a Swashaction ?

OwlsDen
12-20-2013, 08:44 AM
Looks great. Hope you keep us posted.

peezie
12-20-2013, 01:54 PM
yes, itll push carts and not swash driven. ill keep everyone posted. these arent the final bodies once again, these were made for testing. you guys will be in for a suprise for sure.

peezie
03-19-2014, 08:53 PM
About to be ready for an initial public offering on these finalized machines for public testing/sale. I will contact those that have sent me messages in the order received and then take orders if there are any left. Shooting for 2 weeks to be ready with a small batch of 20 and then ramp up production slowly until full production by the summer which will be the official launch and change to the final price. I make every part by myself with no help and some parts are manually made which I hope to change by the summer. Why no full blown release? Even though to date there has been over 500+ hours of testing (actual time tattooing) there have been slight changes to the finalized mechanics and I want to give myself some leeway to resolve any issues if any arise. Any issues that do arise will be resolved with a quickness as I designed the machine from the ground up myself and I also make all the parts myself so I don't need to consult any engineers or 3rd party people to fix anything and if anything, offer refunds. I want to do it right. These machines will be sold at a discount and wont reflect the final price but will also come with something extra. Get ready, it's coming. This machine is called the Raptor. I will start a new thread once I'm ready to go. A little insight on one of the features, 6 stroke settings without changing any cams. 2.5mm 3.0mm 3.5mm 3.8mm 4.3mm and 4.8mm. No other parts to buy or replace to get these settings. Making the parts as we speak and I'm introducing a new mfg process which may hold me back if it don't work out the way i think it will. The process is heat treating as some parts need to be heat treated close to 60rc which is basically bearing grade hardness and the parts are stainless steel. Expensive and time consuming process to introduce but I want this machine to be bullet proof with no wear. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up to spark some interest. Can't post pics until next week as I'm about to file the patent to protect my hard work (sad that It has come to this). Have a nice day everybody.

sacredsouls
03-19-2014, 10:14 PM
Omg I am so excited. I am definitely interested in being among the first to get this machine.


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asA
03-20-2014, 12:31 AM
I want to be in on the first machines.

gautam
03-20-2014, 01:03 AM
i too want to :cool:

jasonadelinia
03-20-2014, 06:13 AM
Same!

OwlsDen
03-20-2014, 10:41 AM
What is the initial price going to be? If I can swing it I would be happy to test one out.

peezie
03-20-2014, 11:48 AM
I got everyone down and when the time is ready I'll contact everyone to see if you wanna follow through. Before that though I'll post pics and videos. No commitment necessary by the way. Anyone else interested just lemme know here and I'll contact everyone in the order received. Price for the finalized test machines will be 450$ US. But you'll get 650$ worth of stuff (can't elaborate just yet). These machines have been tested and proven and then improved to the best quality possible. No break in needed as they run how they're gonna run right outta the box. All metal on metal construction with no plastic to wear out. I'll keep everyone updated as the time nears and post pics and videos as soon as possible. Thank you everyone for your interest.

Patrick
03-20-2014, 11:59 AM
I'd like to be on that list, if there's still room.
Thanks

peezie
03-20-2014, 12:13 PM
There's always room. No commitment necessary either. I'll just contact everyone in the order received. People who contact me here or facebook will have priority over everyone else. I'll also be constantly making them but at a slow rate so you'll get it eventually. Don't have to pay until it's ready to be shipped. I'll be making maybe around 10 a week to get feedback and give myself room to make changes and then an official release in the summer.

inkinwi
03-20-2014, 06:58 PM
That is a beauty. I for sure am interested in grabbing one up

hellraiser6662
03-20-2014, 08:42 PM
Pop me down, can it run carts?

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peezie
03-21-2014, 02:03 PM
Yes, it'll push carts. Thanks for your interest. Anyone else interested just post here or pm me. Building a list from date received and will contact everyone by date. Even people that have contacted me before do not need to contact me again. Again, no commitment necessary. You'll have 2 days from time of contact to purchase and than I'll just contact the next person on the list. Everyone will be contacted when the machines are ready to be shipped. Before I contact anyone I'll post pics, videos and more detail and give everyone a couple days for the info to soak in. Thanks again everyone for your interest.

thebeyond66
03-22-2014, 02:49 AM
Put me down for one!

reigningink
03-25-2014, 01:49 AM
I'm interrested. Please let me know when you are selling these. Thanks alot.

sacredsouls
03-25-2014, 09:14 AM
Are there gonna be color options? The red looks nice but I hate red lol. A black one would be perfect.


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darianthade
03-25-2014, 12:38 PM
Sign me up, I am interested too.

peezie
03-25-2014, 12:55 PM
Got you guys down. I'm always checking the forum so don't worry about your place in line. Anyone else, feel free to post. No commitment necessary. Also, you can pick any color you want as I do all the anodizing in house. I'll post pictures of all the color options and info before I contact everyone for the orders. I'll get some more info up this week and some final pics and vids next week I hope. Working long hours to get this done but it'll be worth the wait, I promise.

slicksteel
03-25-2014, 12:56 PM
I will take one.

peezie
04-07-2014, 08:30 PM
247372473824739
This will be my last post on this thread as I'm about to start a new thread with all the details of this machine with pics and vids. Been a long time coming but I feel you'll appreciate the time and effort put into this machine. This is the motor I'm using which is a 5.2 watt motor and is 16mm wide and slightly longer than a 17mm maxon which I have pictured here side by side. The motor has a 1 piece machined out casing which is real nice. I'll explain my choice of motor in the new thread but it was basically for the power to weight/size ratio. Anyone interested in buying, please refrain from contacting or posting here until I start a new thread in the next couple of days as I have a long list already and need to organize it. Also, you should wait and see what you would potentially be getting before making an informed decision. Thank you for your time and support everyone. Once again, this machine is called the Raptor.

No Iron Machines
04-08-2014, 08:52 PM
ROCK...

Ourson777
04-19-2014, 05:38 PM
want!
I'd be happy to lend my hand in testing. I've been following this for a while now. Looks awesome, man!

johndameart
04-19-2014, 05:51 PM
ide love to try one out.

Ofeloner
04-19-2014, 07:32 PM
I for surely want in!! Please put me on that list for sure for sure,,please and Thanx,,Rock death!!..

darkness
04-20-2014, 04:41 AM
Dont forget my :-)

Patrick
06-09-2014, 03:04 PM
Hey Peezie, Just curious on the progress of these machines. Any new news?

tatu richie
06-09-2014, 05:27 PM
u know im down

peezie
06-09-2014, 11:04 PM
Big announcement coming as soon as this week or next week. Though not an official release, more of a public testing/offering with the finalized design and a buffer between now and sept/october for the official release. It will be a slow rollout at about 10 machines per week until sept/oct so as to be able to get feedback and make any changes if I need too and also hire some help by then. I'm pretty locked into the final design though and closed testing has been real exciting for myself and the local artists using these. I'm a one man show and I'm not a machinist, though I learned how to machine and I machine every part here myself and have been working out the logistics to get this made and done right. I build all these parts with a 24 year old cnc machine and manual equipment so please be patient. It introduces a new drive mechanism that I haven't seen available on the market and every machine will have all stroke adjustments without changing out parts. You do need to open it up to set the stroke you want but you will be able to change it if you want to. If you get the machine second hand you can be sure that all stroke adjustments are there if you need it. This has been a very personal project to me and I hope you guys enjoy the machine as much as I have. 3 years in the making and nothing was left to chance. Every day there have been refinements and redesigns so as to make producing these easier without sacrifice to quality. You don't have to worry about this machine falling apart or arriving DOA. But just in case, I design and build every single part right now so if I need to then I can make fixes real quick to get everyone squared away in a reasonable amount of time. If you are counting on this machine to be a daily runner without backup I want to advise that you wait until the official release as I don't want to be responsible for any downtime a malfunction will cause you. This release is a public testing phase and machines will be sold at a discount. It has been through extensive testing but there are a whole lotta parts and it's always possible that something may go wrong. Get ready for a breath of fresh air, The Velociraptor. Apologies for the long post.

Jack Steel
06-10-2014, 06:49 AM
Paul ,

if all goes like i saw ; this machine will give a lot of builders a little less swagg :p
as far as i could see , this is a unique well thought out concept , that will proove its worth

:)

keep it up

peezie
06-11-2014, 11:50 PM
25206
Ok, little teaser before I introduce it in a new thread next week. Side by side next to the test prototypes. The anodized ones are the test ones. Final ones not shown fully assembled here but you get a glance at how it looks. Another small bit of info, notice the difference in piston size? The old one has a 5/16 (size of your tube stem) piston assembly with a 1/4 inch internal piston. The new one has been bumped up to 3/8 with 5/16 internal piston. Massive piston assembly to cover all bases. Enjoy everyone.

peezie
06-11-2014, 11:51 PM
And thanks for the kind words Jack.

ATS
06-12-2014, 05:53 AM
These look the bomb!

brandonmull
06-12-2014, 05:53 PM
i am interested in test running one of these also.