neotat cam wheels

[joelhague]

i got a 3.5mm stroke in trade i want to change it to 4.2 but i dont wanna buy a whole new motor that comes with the cam, just the cam itself, anyone have rays email?
neotat #? my machine is the vivace

[punisher]

From picture bishops cams look the same as neotats to me. Bishop sells his on his website. Not sure if it will work but it's a twenty dollar try.



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[TattoosByRob]

I tried to contact Neotat about a similar request and they refused to sell me a cam only a complete assembled motor with a cam on it "The cam is balanced on the motor and cannot be removed therefore we only sell pre assembled motor/cam" whatever...........................

[Administrator]

This is true. The big problem is when you want parts for a generation of macline that will not accommodate the change.

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[joelhague]

ok well i opened up my vivace and them saying it cannot be removed is sorta bulklshit ,its got a little set screw on the cam wheels just like any other rotary it comes off no problem, does anyone own both a vivace and a bishop capo and is willing to check for me if they are the same cam wheels , i emailed neotat with no response ray hasnt been on here in months either so no point in messaging him, if they arte gonna give me this story about not being able to remove it and say i have to order a entire motor that i dont even need id rather not.. i know they look the same on the website id just really like to have someone with both machines check it out it will only take 2 seconds and i think will help a few users get the cams they need more easily... whats with neotats site also for such a popular machine there site and online store is really lacking...

[slicksteel]

the cams on the neo are bigger but the bearing that goes in fits in the slide area is the same.

[joelhague]

so is a bishop bearing gunna work on the neotat or ?

[joelhague]

id really hate to have to order a entire motor that is just gunna sit around and collect dust, thats annoying and seems more liek amoney grab then anything to me, why sell individual cams when we could sell motor+cam no one would buy the motors if they just sold the cams, until a motor burned out , and that doesnt happen tooo too often on a neotat

[punisher]

The same question i have myself my 4.2 bishop showed up i'll take it apart and see how the bearing fits in my neotat. Then i'l post on here again

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[punisher]

So took the cam off the bishop through it on a mabuchi rg series motor i had laying around witch is what is in the neotats. It off by about a millimeter as far as i can tell here a pic. To me this seems like a very simple machining fix. 15793
Can anyone with machining knowledge back this up?

I'm about 90% sure could pull this off with a vice and drill press

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[punisher]

Also thats a 4.2 mm cam in the old 1.8 mm neotat. 3.5mm cam would obviously require even less work.

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[TattoosByRob]

Ok I shouldn't have said you can't take it off but you shouldn't take it off because its balanced on the motor...I'm just saying what I was told by them as to why they don't sell them separately...I've had mine on and off before though as well.....

[punisher]

The bishops are not balanced to the motor because the maxon is already balanced i believe. The cans are also sold separately. I never disconnected my neo tat drive. I just have the same series motor laying around because i've been playing with building my own rotary

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[slicksteel]

The bishops are not balanced to the motor because the maxon is already balanced i believe. The cans are also sold separately. I never disconnected my neo tat drive. I just have the same series motor laying around because i've been playing with building my own rotary

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so how does that motor run with the cam from bishop on it-does it run rough and out of balance?
also the old neo- 1-8 -2.5 have a smaller port hole for the cam. the bishop cam should fit any of the new machines fine as the bearings/slider cutout are the same size. And the bishop 4.2 is smaller then the new neotat cams

[Travis]

Just installed the bishop 3.5 cam on to the vivace no issues no vibrations and runs super smooth

[punisher]

Thats great news

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[joelhague]

What a crock of shit I got the same story from neotat about having to balance the cam wheel. I really don't like being lied to neotat lost my business . I'm not an idiot its one screw and takes under 5 minutes to do ... guess a bishop cam is going on this machine sorry for the rant I just am really dissapointed they straight up lie to there customers just for the sake of selling a motor ... I told them I didn't care if it voided my warrenty they didn't care and still said id have to buy an entire motor for 125 bucks well I'm mot throwing 100 bucks in the trash basically sorry neotat ill get my rotarys elsewhere

[johndameart]

this sucks. :( kinda makes me back away from neotat a bit.

[joelhague]

Yup anyone wanna buy my vivace 3.5 I don't even want it in my drawer any more . I asked Karen what the balancing procedure was on them what tools they used etc . She went on to tell me it was "magic" fuck this shit imnsick of being lied to in the tattoo industry just so someone can make a buck well just so you know neotat by not selling me a 25 dollar cam you have lost much more because I will not be purchasing any machines in the future from you , giving me the run around , making up story's treating me like I don't know shit. The fact of the matter is the machine design is simple and simple to service for anyone u don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand a rotary machine lmao whatever ill stick with bishop or impact

[joelhague]

Seems silly to lose customers and get a bad Rep over such a small piece of the machine I told them I know a bishop cam will work on it but id prefer to keep my business with them and the correct parts on the machine. They don't care basically said go ahead. What if someones cam was worn out what if it was faulty what if the motor is fine and the cam is not good to know u gotta spend 125 bucks. Each timeand have a drawer full of spare motors u will probably never get around to using

[johndameart]

Damn, makes me regret having one. :/

[joelhague]

they are awesome machines i just think the customer service is lacking major, you know how many times fk irons has sent me out parts for free just to make things right. now that is customer service at its best and they will forever have my business

[Administrator]

Seems silly to lose customers and get a bad Rep over such a small piece of the machine I told them I know a bishop cam will work on it but id prefer to keep my business with them and the correct parts on the machine. They don't care basically said go ahead. What if someones cam was worn out what if it was faulty what if the motor is fine and the cam is not good to know u gotta spend 125 bucks. Each timeand have a drawer full of spare motors u will probably never get around to using

I would assume if there was an issue with the parts they would warranty it for you. Many manufacturers simply choose not to sell parts for multiple reasons. If a bishop cam wheel fits and it fulfills your needs what is the issue? There are multiple builders, relay and rotary that will prefer you send a machine back if you have an issue with it. I am not saying you cant modify your own stuff, its yours you own it but even Seth Ciferri will tell you that you should not do anything to his machines other than turning the contact screw. Many coil builders will tell you to send a machine back if you want it re-sprung. Easy to change a spring but it wont be the same machine they built for you to their standards. I think the whole point of having most of these systems that allow you to change the motor are that they are one unit and everything is made to match up (plug and play).

[joelhague]

I know i will probably use a bishop cam but my whole point was wanting to keep neotat parts on a neotat machine haha

[Administrator]

You may also want to consider seeing if someone wants to do a motor swap that has an XL stroke motor. What connection is the current machine?

[joelhague]

current machine is RCA , Black, if anyone wants to swap for a 4.2 stroke let me know, i have the 3.5 im pretty sure the 3.5 is even more popular, i just prefer a longer stroke for everything

[Administrator]

current machine is RCA , Black, if anyone wants to swap for a 4.2 stroke let me know, i have the 3.5 im pretty sure the 3.5 is even more popular, i just prefer a longer stroke for everything

Unfortunately all the people local to me I could ask that have more than one neotat use clip cord or mini-jack. Was sending it back to NeoTat to swap out the part for you not an option?

[joelhague]

im just not down to send a machine in for 40 bucks shipping and pay 125 for the entire new motor and cam, and be without a machine for an entire month, when i know for a fact its a 5 minute 25 dollar fix i can do myself...

option A: $125 parts, service fee?, +$40 shipping+close to 4 weeks without machine.

option b: $25 , 5 minute downtime

whatever im done with there company if anyone wants to motor swap lemme know

[artoftatt2]

Ill sell ya a four dot motor like new

[joelhague]

How much randy? I'll probably just sell the vivace and put the money towards the new dart machine from impact when its released

[rjdadio]

I have not been on the forum for many months …. have so many things going on in my life that just does not allow me the time to sit in front of a computer and chat, but this was brought to my attention and that I should look into this post, and fact is…. this issue has been a thorn in my craw for over a week now.
First I want say that the motor and crankwheels are balanced together on each and every motor assembly. We could just slap the cranks on the motors and be done with it, but I have found that the tiny balancing “magic” makes a difference in the running smoothness. Maybe some artists can’t feel the difference, but I can and I WILL NOT, I repeat…..will not lower my standards and just slap them together….end of story. This is all about the quality of my product and when in the past when we offered the crankwheels for sale individually it caused more problems than not. I use a thread locker on the screws because I don’t want them rattling loose and where some of the screws can be removed by the customer, many cannot and the results at times have been a real mess. So to retain the quality of my machines, we don’t sell the parts separately…..end of story.
I am sorry if offends people that we won’t sell this part, but that is MY policy on the matter. And if you think that it’s about money…..you are so wrong. In fact, my “Bean Counter” does not like my price of the motor cartridge assembly because “our” profit is too low on that product. Well, I set the price and it stands….and when I am told that we need to raise the price of the machines….I say no!
Now, some may not realize that I have worked on my NeoTats for many years now, 9, and I have continually made new developments to the machines in order to keep making my machines better…. I am my toughest customer…..that’s the way it is. So I hope many of you can appreciate the time I have put toward a good product.
So now the personal side…… When a customer who calls a company only to find a part is not available for sale, that person may be disappointed or even mad, but that is the way it is.
Here we have a customer who purchased a used machine and contacted us about changing the stroke length to a longer stroke and he did not want to purchase a motor cartridge and does not want to send the machine back to us…..he just wants to buy the crankwheel and do it himself and was told the part is not a replacement part.
So,
Same customer spends more than a week via email not taking no for an answer but only getting pushier, that is not a customer service problem….in fact our customer service continued to politely communicate with this person…..but the answer was the same…..the part is not for sale. And when this person does not believe the end product’s quality of balance is the reason we don’t sell the part….and still will not take no for an answer…..this is not a customer service problem. And when this person still is going to get this part no matter what and can balance the part on his own and wants to know how we balance…. and we will not tell him how it is done…. he then goes on to say he does not believe that we actually balance the assembly and says it is all about money……this is not a customer service problem.
I am offended when anyone of my team is called a liar via email or forum or whatever…… You are calling me a liar!
Now I don’t care how entitled a person may think they are that I should tell them exactly how we do our balancing “magic” or how we make a part work…..It is my technical, my proprietory information and maybe I don’t need to share that knowledge. I share a lot more information than most…..and probably more that I should, but some things are kept secret.
And I don’t give a rat’s ass if “magic” is not a proper technical term…..it’s what I call it…..and I’m sticking with it!

[johndameart]

So if us Neo tat users need something changed? we can just send the machine with the price of the part thats needed? also, Im also wanting to know, if the clip where the needle goes eventually goes bad, Should we just send it in to you guys?

[rjdadio]

Yes and the shipping. I take care of you guys where I can and stand behind the product. You don't know how many machines I have just updated parts when it came for a service for free.....even ones that were years old. It amazes me how many artists are afraid of taking the machine apart.....an if you want us to clean and service it, we charge what I think is a nominal fee...$35 plus the shipping back. And it does not take a month......I don't know where that comes from. I will admit that over the years there have been a very few that were held up, but usually those were ones that someone sent without a note or contact information.....I can't read minds.....please send me a note with what you want done and a way of getting ahold of you.....then we will make it happen.
PLUS...
I like to treat people the way I would like to be treated....with courtesy and respect. - Ray

[johndameart]

awesome.

[rjdadio]

But please don't message me here or by Facebook.....I may not see it. Give us a call @ 928.473.4185, that's the best way.

[joelhague]

Exactly most artists are scared to take apart and service there own machine i am not i simply asked about the balanacing procedure and tools to do it to see if there is any grain of truth to it . Thats all i wanted to know then you respond with sayings its magic . What does that sound like to you ?.... treat me with the respect i deserve and ill do the same , this is not my first neotat machine nor my first rotary. Im dissapointed with this entire situation ray i have been turned off ever purchasing from your company again and that is not something that happens often . And not because you wont send me a cam wheel but because of how this was dealt with and dont act like its completly my fault because that is not the case i just wanted answers without bullshit that is all i dont care if you tell me how you balance just dont call it magic and sound like a fucking scam and make me out to be an idiot i have talked to many artists on the subject all of wich said there is no balancing . All i asked for was proof and maybe id actually pay to have it done i hate being ripped off as im sure alot of you do and its HUGE in the tattoo industry

[joelhague]

Dont blame me because im the first one to make a stink about it out of the artists o have spoken too many have been pissed off about not being able to get parts they need for there neotat and were told the same thing on the phone so now what we are forced to either send it in or have a machine that sits around that were pissed off at even using because its not set up how we want and it gets traded away

[joelhague]

Anyways thank you for your time but i guess there is no solution that will work for both of us on this

[serial1313]

Just bought a purple 4.2 Vivace I can't wait to get it. I keep reading they are great for lining.

[joelhague]

They def are you will be happy thats why i wish mine was a 4.2

[joelhague]

You might wanna order the red spring to serial,

The red spring keeps the machine running smooth on higher volts ,with a longer stroke machine we all know requires more volts to be running at the same cps as a shorter stroke machine. The vivace makes a killer liner but most find running it higher works better 10.5-11.5 volts you will notice the machine start to rattle and sound a bit worse on higher voltages the red spring keeps it running smooth and quiet when running it this high for a power liner

[punisher]

I agree i use 4.2 bishop i can do anything with and three neotats. A 1.8, a 2.4 then a 3.5 (which is in the mail on it's way now) i would love to switch the early neo for longer stroke lengths. I'll end up trading them off though.

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[joelhague]

Believe it or not the stealth with silver bearing also makes a killer liner I measured the actual stroke you get out of these machines and the silver bearing produces 4.1mm total stroke give it a try as a back up! I use mine daily even tho I have a couple thousand dollars worth of machines in my drawer

[joelhague]

Been running strong for 2.5 years haha it amazes me everyday the thing has not crapped out once . And made its value back 10 fold one of the really amazing things is that on higher voltages where a lot of rotarts get the needle lift up or crazy vibrations in the stealth that needle stays flush n flat in the bottom of the tube AMAZING! For something most would call a shit knock off I do not support knock offs but I think the stealth has been around long enough and enough ppl have loved them to call them a valuable tool, we are not all made of bags of money and when something just plain works at an affordable price. It is a blessing, this is afterall really about the art nothing else. And I have seen more then one amazing tattoo banged out with one of these lil beasts

[Administrator]

If you love your stealth post a review. I am done trying to keep up with this thread.

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[slicksteel]

Ok so the bishop cam is the exact same as the neotat as it was copied directly from it and the latest ones have abec 4 bearings. Infact the bishop set screw is area is better balanced on the bishop ones as that area was improved upon.I have been told this by Todd P-also he further refined his cam to be in even better balance and uses abec 5 bearings. This is paired with the correct slide weight n length, frames front slide channel design/machining and the motor being mounted correctly which leads to a smooth almost vibration free running machine.

[Administrator]

I can appreciate that you have some kind of deal with Todd and want to show your support however bumping and thread jacking multiple times to to make a point of raising the SEO value of this new machine is getting a little annoying. Bringing up Todd and the Bishop and the NeoTat in the same post is exactly what had be having to close multiple threads that turned into arguments on here pretty much since the site was built. As well as a big part of why I had to keep Todd (and Clint) off this site originally. When you get your machine post a review. There is no reason to keep re hashing this as it will only attract more drama and the same stories over again.

[slicksteel]

ok no problem-I do not have any type of deal-I paid for my machines. On this last post I was just trying to share information about the cams and thought I did not say anything bad about others. I own several neotats, vivaces, Og bishops and owned several capos and now two impacts. I like all these machines except the capos which i did not care for to much but have seen nice work done by them.So when I got the impacts and they ran so good, I was head over heels for them as they were everything I wanted in a slide rotary and wanted to show others that were wondering about the quailty etc.

[Administrator]

All i am saying is this has started a fight before. You have been on here long enough ot see it. I have heard probably 10 different accounts of what transpired between all three of those companies in the last two years. I dint want to rehash any more of this.

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