bishop or vivace? or hold out for the beast?

[Mission Tattoo]

what do you think looking for a new all-a-rounder

[(Opted Out)]

Neo Vivace... But havent tried the beast yet...

[tattood]

depends if your looking for a proven machine hands down neotat, if u want something a lil newer and cutting edge and price isnt a factor i wood get the beast.lol..

[slicksteel]

would have to say the impact or the vivace

[tattood]

^^^ agreed

[Sage Oz]

I've a couple vivacés and they are really nice but I hear good things about the impact as well.

[Alie K]

Don't own a Bishop (or an Impact). I do love my neos. I have a "few" others I use as well, but neos are my dailys.

[asA]

I'd say anything other than a bishop.

[tattood]

i woodnt own another Bishop but if u wanna give on a spin check ebay there is a capo tat soul edition for 270 including shipping... just be warned sometime they arent as quiet as the others mentioned

[MickWrath]

I prefer impacts. But I haven't tried the beast...yet lol

[Sage Oz]

My vivaces are very quiet even at high speeds, and very little vibration

[hendricksonart.com]

I noticed the beast had a pretty hefty price tag. My question is when it comes to rotarys with no give and and no needle clip just how different could they be? I know a lot of these linear machines have motors with similar power torque curves?

[fkirons]

I noticed the beast had a pretty hefty price tag. My question is when it comes to rotarys with no give and and no needle clip just how different could they be? I know a lot of these linear machines have motors with similar power torque curves?
Its not about the give or not give. It's about the quality and cost motor, the overall quality, the mechanism, the time that takes to machine the body and components. the amount of components, the finish, the packaging, what's provided with the machine, the performance.

[hendricksonart.com]

Just to clarify I am not referring to Chinese machines more like say rotary works to something of this sort. 200-600 dollar range. If there both linear with no give how different could they be. Besides finish and look?

[tattood]

Just to clarify I am not referring to Chinese machines more like say rotary works to something of this sort. 200-600 dollar range. If there both linear with no give how different could they be. Besides finish and look?

i have to agree in a way with this. i have had neos, bishop, impact, and i always seem to come back to my rotary works. I think some people just like the different looks of certain machines, and some people like the least amount of weight, noise and vibration possible so go for something that fits their likes. I honestly dont see much difference in the performance of the machines i metioned they lay ink really simalirly. only difference is how it fits in my hand. , and personal preference...lol..

* the only difference that is really noticeable performance wise is when i use a longer stroke, 4+ mm, or a short stroke, 2.5.. The RW are 3.5 but seem to pack and line like a machine with a larger stroke...

[CajunDave]

ive been using a neotat original 3.5 for 2 years exclusively and i really love it. it shades and color blends awesomeand does small line groupings well enough but i been eyeballing something that will pack solid black and color a little faster. been looking at the longer stroke vivace or something fancy like a halo/dragonfly/inkjekta. i really would like a hawk spirit honestly but the needles just seem so god damn expensive . for the shop i work in now i would lose to much money me thinks. ive seen some amazing b&g done with the bishops.

[MickWrath]

I'm all about performance but have had much better luck with the performance of higher end engines, the cranker aside. I run constant on and have burned out several lower end DC motors from some builders. Never had a problem with any maxon, faulhaber, or portescap. Can't say the same for mabuchi but not all mabuchis are made equal either so I take it with a grain of salt.

[tattood]

^^ i gotta go with this as you have more experience, but im just thinking along the lines of a no-give rotary, or a non adjustable dd...

**deleted my last post because i thought about it and dont have enough experience with high end rotaries for that strong of a statement**

[Everlastingxxx]

I have a Vivace and it’s great. I need another machine and have been interested in the Dart.

[MickWrath]

The dart is definitely on my list as soon as she is released!

[Lynn mcnew]

Vivace period.

[hendricksonart.com]

I only ask because I really don't have much experience I had a few different nice rotarys only to sell them and go back to coils. I now use a direct drive with a mabuchi motor that I've been pretty happy with for black and grey. Still prefer coils for color but want to try the Dan kubin mini cranker. I liked my cheap as stealth for color and figure this could be similar only better.

[tattood]

what ones have u tried^^

[hendricksonart.com]

I had a bishop, rotary works, stealth and a blitz. I used the bishop the most and always had trouble with the needle clip and not getting the right bend in the needle. IF i had the needle set up perfect then it worked great but it seemed I somtimes had trouble getting that sweet spot. The blitz and rotary works I did not use enough to really even give them a good go. I started using coils again and just got better heals. I sold all my rotarys except the stealth and started using it again with less needle hand and actually started getting some good nice results with them. Ive never really bent my needles much but with rotarys it seems like i really need that needle snug against the bottom of the tube for them to work for me unlike with coils. So now I kinda want to give them another go, just useing less needle hang then I did before seems to be the trick. I am in the middle of escrow on a house and have not allowed my self to buy any machines untill this house thing goes through which has been a year in the making. Its been killing me haha

[tattood]

i have many rotary works and they are really great machines. the mini cranker is next for me also...

[hendricksonart.com]

i have many rotary works and they are really great machines. the mini cranker is next for me also...
forgot i had an hm as well

[The Limey]

I'm digging my impact, its got loads of torque at low volts so that even I can whip with it and vibrates so little if it didn't make a bit of noise my nerve damaged hands wouldn't know it was on. Can't compare it to Ray's flagship Vivace as I don't have one but its much smoother than the Bishop I had and my original Neotat although the latter isn't really a fair comparison as they aren't in the same price bracket. If Ray ever sends me my Vivace I'd happily do a head to head comparison.

[tattood]

I'm digging my impact, its got loads of torque at low volts so that even I can whip with it and vibrates so little if it didn't make a bit of noise my nerve damaged hands wouldn't know it was on. Can't compare it to Ray's flagship Vivace as I don't have one but its much smoother than the Bishop I had and my original Neotat although the latter isn't really a fair comparison as they aren't in the same price bracket. If Ray ever sends me my Vivace I'd happily do a head to head comparison.

agreed.. all i hear when i use it is the noise of the motor. really awesome machine

[impact rotary machines]

agreed.. all i hear when i use it is the noise of the motor. really awesome machine

I agree as well.ray is the henery ford of rotaries as far as im concerned..