Symbeos team and builders

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02-20-2014, 12:38 AM
crabink

Symbeos team and builders

I always new that there had to be more to the whole rotary technology and the ability to use a more suited motor for the suited task seems to be what was missing from the equation.
The dragon fly seems like a low torque motor and it really excels with smaller mags like 7's for coloring
The Halo seems to have high torque and really shine with larger fat mags like 15's for color shading.

I really hope that all of the machine builders take this into consideration, because just like coil machines there is now a comparable market being created that is more task specific.
I would expect to see builders creating low torque shader machines and high torque machines, and faster machines for lining and such.
I would like to see the speed and torque information of the motor when I look on a rotary builders website. This extra information is very important and i hate no knowing what I am buying.

I would like to see a low torque motor for my Halo. I think a few more options and more technological play testing needs to be done.
After all.. coils are already like this.. They are made either as liners or shaders or packers. Rotary it now seems is no different.

Any of you builders see what i am saying? Your thoughts?

Love to hear what you have to say as well Gaston.
02-20-2014, 02:12 AM
peezie

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabink

I always new that there had to be more to the whole rotary technology and the ability to use a more suited motor for the suited task seems to be what was missing from the equation.
The dragon fly seems like a low torque motor and it really excels with smaller mags like 7's for coloring
The Halo seems to have high torque and really shine with larger fat mags like 15's for color shading.

I really hope that all of the machine builders take this into consideration, because just like coil machines there is now a comparable market being created that is more task specific.
I would expect to see builders creating low torque shader machines and high torque machines, and faster machines for lining and such.
I would like to see the speed and torque information of the motor when I look on a rotary builders website. This extra information is very important and i hate no knowing what I am buying.

I would like to see a low torque motor for my Halo. I think a few more options and more technological play testing needs to be done.
After all.. coils are already like this.. They are made either as liners or shaders or packers. Rotary it now seems is no different.

Any of you builders see what i am saying? Your thoughts?

Love to hear what you have to say as well Gaston.

This is only true if the machines rely on the motor to drive the needle with minimal kinetic energy. Toss in a bigger flywheel and now you have more kinetic energy to drive the needle even at lower speeds. Just think of the mini cranker. Cheap motor, but yet it drives in ink like no ones business. It has a big flywheel coupled with an weighted armature to store kinetic energy and drive the needle. Direct drives with bigger fly wheels will always work better as it has a reserve of kinetic energy to drive the needle. But then again, it is the motor coupled with the correct amount of weight. And that is the difference between a good machine and a great machine. I saw you were interested in the halo having a solid piston with no give. That wont make much of a difference if it's made of plastic and the weight is near the same. Throw in a solid metal piston to have a store of kinetic energy, and now you have something truly epic haha. I tried it and it is like night and day. So again, your comment about specific motors for specific tasks only holds true for machines with a minimal store of kinetic energy. Swashdrive has caught on to this. That is why they offer weights for their machines. And this is just my opinion from my own experience. I'm sure someone else will have a differing opinion.
02-20-2014, 02:15 AM
peezie

So to make it short and simple. You can get 1 motor to do it all. But it's up to how the machine is made. That's my main thought on it.
02-20-2014, 05:09 AM
Roman HM tattoomachines

hello
this is a subject I obviously have been working on for years…. we are talking about the same thing just in different points of view… as you guys already know , I have been making my HM rotaries very specific over the last years( each one for different tasks)… they have been using different motor options and different stroke setups and different slides as in weight and length ,as well as different abar drive setups as the evolution and mini evolution… of course by just changing the stroke wheel you get a different "hit force" changing completely the machines character , as well as changing the slides weight etc… Soo I can say that if you are able to change as well the speed and torque of the motor you are also changing the machines character !
as in coil machines … the difference is the sum of many small changes… IN rotaries if you add up in the equation… speed , torque , stroke length, inertia( weight in stroke wheel and drive system),and "hit" you have a specific machine…. that is what i call the setup . the GREAT thing about the Symbeos is that "setup" or configuration, is left to the actual artist hand and mind to decide what suits him/her better….
so to peezie's last post… i think its true that you can get one motor to make it all depending on how you build the overall machine, but i have to add that sometimes you want speed without the excess of power or the other way around … low speed ,but with enough power to push whatever you want… so if you want to take more advantage of that built… different motor options come to play….
again, thats the whole point of Symbeos…. giving that interchange power of diffent configurations to the artists to have them decide their perfect setup…
thanks again, Roman
please excuse my english….
02-20-2014, 05:28 AM
ATS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman HM tattoomachines

sometimes you want speed without the excess of power or the other way around … low speed ,but with enough power to push whatever you want…

Hi Roman.. this in all honesty is something that still confuses me a bit..
Please could you elaborate and and cast some light on the matter?
I did get to see Symbeos in Brighton, and thought it looked and felt really good.. shame you wasn't there when I dropped by though mate..
Thanks.
02-20-2014, 06:36 AM
Roman HM tattoomachines

hello
yes its a shame i wasn't there at that moment!
i will prepair a chart explaining this so its more clear for you guys as soon as i have time … but its easy if i translate it to coils… as example … if you like for coloring a slow and punchy shader , I'm sure you won't use it for soft black and grey work… or viceversa….
and if you like for 5 liner a fast zippy liner I'm sure you won't use it for an open 13 liner or for solid color work with big mags….
but ill try and get a translation in cps and force , asap.
thanks , roman
02-20-2014, 02:50 PM
crabink

Very good info... this thread is heating up...

Roman any idea how the dragonfly motor compares to your #5 motor?
02-20-2014, 03:18 PM
Roman HM tattoomachines

I really dont want to compare other builders Machines or motors ...
sorry i just dont want somebody taking my words wrong... Many years in this bussiness ,And always wanted mutual respect!
Ill make a chart and you guys can compare yourself...
Thanks!! Roman
02-21-2014, 03:52 PM
Bishopbyname

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman HM tattoomachines

I really dont want to compare other builders Machines or motors ...
sorry i just dont want somebody taking my words wrong... Many years in this bussiness ,And always wanted mutual respect!
Ill make a chart and you guys can compare yourself...
Thanks!! Roman

Classy response as always Roman. Shame there isn't more like you around!
02-22-2014, 06:34 PM
fkirons

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabink

I always new that there had to be more to the whole rotary technology and the ability to use a more suited motor for the suited task seems to be what was missing from the equation.
The dragon fly seems like a low torque motor and it really excels with smaller mags like 7's for coloring
The Halo seems to have high torque and really shine with larger fat mags like 15's for color shading.

I really hope that all of the machine builders take this into consideration, because just like coil machines there is now a comparable market being created that is more task specific.
I would expect to see builders creating low torque shader machines and high torque machines, and faster machines for lining and such.
I would like to see the speed and torque information of the motor when I look on a rotary builders website. This extra information is very important and i hate no knowing what I am buying.

I would like to see a low torque motor for my Halo. I think a few more options and more technological play testing needs to be done.
After all.. coils are already like this.. They are made either as liners or shaders or packers. Rotary it now seems is no different.

Any of you builders see what i am saying? Your thoughts?

Love to hear what you have to say as well Gaston.

Crab, Please start a new thread for the Halo with your questions. I'll be more than happy to answer your concerns. I don't want to hijack this thread.
Thanks

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