Cut back shader or......

Ok so ive never shaded with a coil as ive always had great healing with the rotarys for black and grey.

But wanting to improve on smoothness or style is leading me to coils for this trial,
can anybody tell me how a cut back shader is compared to a non cut back? What type of throw length i should use And what style its suited for i.e fast hands, depth and stretch and so on.

im looking into one of emillions as it matches the liner ive just purchased from him, its a cut back liner also and am thinking i should maybe try shading with it,any help appreciated

If im not mistaken it was joshua carlton who made the "cutback shader" setup common place, its basically a shader set up as a liner usually with 18 front & 18 back springs, little bit of give very short stroke maybe 2mm.. And i think he runs his between 125-135cps at about 8v but that will totally vary from machine to machine, its more of a scrubbing motion with a short short stroke and the machine runs fast leaving smaller space between needlemarks which obviously is where the smoothness comes from, so basically try it fast, short, softish and no circles just forward and backward scrubbing!.. Hope this helps, if not check out joshua carltons dvd he explains all to do with cutback shaders in them dvds.

After some research and watching his videos I started modifying all my coils with shorter stroke lengths. Everyone in my personal tattoo circle like long stroke everything but you need more for volts to bring the bar down which obviously means a harder hit. I wasn't satisfied with my blends and had run into some scar/overworking problems here and there if I was not careful. After making everything mediumish I can run it at way lower volts with faster cycles and a crazy soft give if I need it. The other guys at my shop are amazed at how quiet my coils sound. Just some two cents. Sometimes Joshua Carlton can be a little contradictory or his methods might only work for him but I think it just takes a minute to really understand the science behind it.

Also my heals had greatly improved since doing so. I've been real happy with it

Shade with the liner you have narrow the gap to a dime or nickle only hang a nickle needle out and use thr scrub motion run the machine with a high pitch buzz like a model airplane and use bug pins that should give you some smooth ass shading and dont forget carlton uses a hawk now and can do it just as smooth so figure out what works best for u not someone else. joshua explains this in hisbseminar dvds no ones hand is the same ppl criticise him for using way more then the normal 6-6.5 v but like u said its all highly dependant on the machines in question im assuming the reason its run high is to get the coil close to no give and keep the consistent depth not having the give bog a bit and leave rough marks when its not always a consistent puncture

Ok.....Lets keep this simple, replace the term "cutback" with the word "fast"......That more or less is it explained..:o

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Originally Posted by zack_fa1r

But wanting to improve on smoothness or style is leading me to coils for this trial,
can anybody tell me how a cut back shader is compared to a non cut back? What type of throw length i should use And what style its suited for i.e fast hands, depth and stretch and so on.

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A cutback is a shorter spring, and has less flex than a "normal" long Shader Spring,...As it is shorter, it is more rigid, therefore, it will keep the CPS ( Cycles Per Second) running pretty fast, and, because it is rigid, it will be hard hitting, so needle depth and handspeed are VERY IMPORTANT....Your rear spring will also play a very important part,more to do with Duty (time spent in skin v's time spent out of skin)...Usually I will run my cutbacks with a 18 up front and rear, pretty fukn fast hand, ride the tube tip, 1.5-2mm throw...Or, you can drop the rear to a 16, this can help....Frame size, and coil layers all play a big part in this equation...

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Originally Posted by skinmech

Ok.....Lets keep this simple, replace the term "cutback" with the word "fast"......That more or less is it explained..:o

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you cant beat keeping things simple:)In fact every machine that passes my way gets a run out for everything, some great surprises to be had. Soba pilot liners make a nice fastish shader just watch your volts and dont dig holes. After watching Mihails work at the studio Gary it is definitely the hand that creates the smoothness and not necessarily the machine

casey brought up a good point....With Coil Machines, there is no Instruction Manuals,Voltage Guides or Running Figs.....What you do, is up to you...I have said it before, Rotaries are like Automatic Cars, Coils are like Manuals/Stick shift Cars...One is harder to learn than the other...However, that doesn't mean one type is better than the other, it just means, unless you understand , and can work with both, you maybe cutting your self short..I have Coil Liners which I use for Shading, and Coil Shaders, which I use for Large Config Lining...Sometimes, what any Machine, be it Coil or Rotary is intended for, is only a suggestion, NOT, a law..

check out OTTO work on here hes use his own short stroke rotary machines they are around 2 ish. and he gets very vibrant colors,blends ,solids etc.
so you could grab a 2.5 neo and do that style with practice. the key is to build up the ink and take your time.