If I remember correctly Tattoo Factory International from Holland and Tony Lynx the same were touting a fully autoclaveable Machine as far back as early Mid 80's. I was sent all the info on it so it's really not a new concept.
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If I remember correctly Tattoo Factory International from Holland and Tony Lynx the same were touting a fully autoclaveable Machine as far back as early Mid 80's. I was sent all the info on it so it's really not a new concept.
You do remember correctly mate, Ive still got the catalog with it inQuote:
Originally Posted by Ta2GeezerUK
If wearing would affect just to the magnets after clave them, wouldn't be necessary just replace them for new ones? Or is it hard to do with these machine systems?
Up til about 2 yrs ago I still had a full Ultra Tattooing Catolologue and full Panther Products from the 80's from the Fretwells and the bumper flash catologue..All Lost in the ether now Sadly.
Talked to Lacenano today in regards to the concern of the magnets losing their power down the road after multiple cycles through the autoclave and they seem very confident that the grade magnets they are using will not deteriorate.
"Our magnets are made of the highest grade of neodymium (let's call it that even tho it's not actually) known to man. There are only two manufacturers capable of making this grade of magnetic material in the world right now; both are military contractors and none of them are located in the USA."
I'm no magnet expert, but so far I'm 5 autoclave cycles in and there has been no change in performance and I'm pretty good a noticing if a machine is going out of whack even a little bit. I am curious if Cyberitual knows, round-a-bouts, how many autoclave cycles he put his magnets through before he started noticing a change b/c i am keeping track..
Not sure why that didn't let me post the full response I got.
"Our magnets are custom made of a neodymium material of a much higher magnetic power and thermal grade then what Clark is using. So much so, that our magnet (which is just a bit larger then Clarks small magnet) is actually stronger than his big magnet (this one: https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddeta...?prod=R6036DIA )
Our magnets are made of the highest grade of neodymium (let's call it that even tho it's not actually) known to man. There are only two manufacturers capable of making this grade of magnetic material in the world right now; both are military contractors and none of them are located in the USA."
Wow,this was a good read a lot of bickering back and fourth. John you make an awesome machine with the mag drive. It is almost effortless when tattooing. (If a little heavy, but I like a bit of weight on my machines.) cyber your machines as well have always pushed the envelope of machine building.
I get get the points that all of you have stated concerning the lace machine. And I have commented before about this whole mess. I actually think all parties involved are acting poorly. And I get it. But like I have said before, all inventions are sooner or later copied, or improved upon.
this whole bitching a out out profession goin to shit, well that is our fault. Sadly it really is. I did not start tattooing to get rich, or be famous. But there are those that have and that has led to the tv shows, and all the media hype. i personally do not watch any shows about tattooing.
But it when I come here and see all of this pissing, moaning, and threats I almost have to laugh. Such respected builders and artists getting angry, your work stands on its own. But when you complain it devalues your very work that you have spent years crafting.
Take a step back, celebrate your work. We all know who did what first.
So max temp is 176f what does your autoclave run at?
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Most autoclaves run at 270f for 30 min under pressure .. The magnets that are being used from the company you posted had this to say about their magnets.. And I quote (Maximum Operating Temperature (abbreviated to MaxOpTemp hereafter) is a general number given for each different grade of magnet material. While not exact, it's a good guideline which applies to many situations. In between the MaxOpTemp and the Curie Temperature, some percentage of the magnetization is irreversibly lost.)
So I believe you were lied to by the fancy non tattooing engineers..
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Somebody owes me some money I said how about using magnets before anyone started using magnets on here.... Pay up!!!! Lol
After reading everything that everyone has written I have to point a couple things out that might help you understand why these guys are pissed.
Seth Ciferri has been building machines for years and is partnered up with Soba with Workhorse Irons where they also sell ink and needles along with other builders machines. Now Seth is partnered up with Bill from Waverly and Grime. Now the three of them own Black Claw Tattoo supply and sell needles and Bills ink. Now all these individuals are in a sense taking ideas and such from each other but the difference that is getting missed is these are all tattoo artist working in the industry. I think the problem is that with only 5-10 years in this industry you do not truly understand the tradition,pride and respect for the old ways and how stuff was and should be done. I love the advances in our industry but would go back 20 years to when there was more honor in the industry any day cause it wasn't over saturated and there weren't anywhere as many sell outs. 20 years ago no one would of even looked twice at those lance guys if for no other reason than respect for the others inside. I will only buy machines, inks and any other supplies I can from artist. I believe in keeping it in the family so to speak. Does this make me any better than anyone..... No! But it's my integrity and I won't bend on that
Frank
I think there is some confusion here. The link to the magnet supplier that is posted in the quote is the magnets that Clark uses for his machines. They wouldn't disclose to me the name of the company they get their magnets from but stated that they are of a higher thermal grade and power than what is available from KJ Magnetics. 135 degrees Celsius (270 Fahrenheit) is the safe rating listed in the manual for the machine. Again, I'm not a machine builder nor do I know much about magnets so time will tell and I will continue using and claving the machine after every tattoo and see what goes on with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by artoftatt2
I respect what you're saying Frank. I can apply that to something I did for 20 years of my life, motocross and freestyle motocross. Back when I was hard into that stuff you learned all your tricks 35 ft in the air over a 75ft gap, ramp to dirt. As you can imagine, that didn't go so well all the time (falling from that height plus getting tackled by 240lbs of metal and rubber isn't the greatest feeling in the world) but when you pulled something off or went to a competition and seen other guys doing some really cool shit there was a higher level of respect there b/c they probably took a lot of hits perfecting that. Nowadays they have huge foam pits, like the bmx guys use, that these guys can practice all these crazy backflip variables, 360's, etc for months on end and not have to worry about getting really fucked up (which, don't get me wrong, is a good thing.) Now when I see someone doing a front flip on a dirtbike at the X-Games or something, yeah that's crazy shit no doubt about it, but I know that guy practiced that into a foam pit for months and had it dialed in before he got to the competition. Not like Carey Hart (Yes, the Hart and Huntington Tattoo shop owner) back at the gravity games in early 2000's that tried the backflip for the first time in his life 35 ft in the air over dirt. Everyone at the venue or watching from their television could feel what was going through his head. To me, the sport was more exciting back then. I'm sure the 20+ year tattooers on here feel the same way about the tattoo industry, like you're saying. Everything is going to evolve and progress and move forward whether we want it to or not. I agree there are a lot of sell outs in the industry but a company trying to bring a product to the table to make our jobs easier and offer another level of defense against disease transmission isn't one of them. Sell outs, to me, are the douche bag tattoo artists that think and behave like they are some sort of rockstar badass and the world owes them something b/c they can sit on their ass for 7 hours and doodle on someones skin. There are a lot of those guys around and a lot of them on television. Yes it is a rewarding feeling to finish a piece and know that you did really well on it but too many guys let that go to their heads to where they become punks and that's not a good look on anyone or any industry. I'm just an average Joe doing what I can to take care of a wife and two kids so I put a lot of hours in a week, miss out on a lot of shit and right now this machine is making my day go a little easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tattooalleypa
I understand what you are saying and you are absolutely fucking right that you do what you need to do for family first and foremost! As far as the elitist mentality goes unfortunately there will always be "that guy" in every industry in the world. Now if you like that unit and feel it makes your life and job easier then that's your decision and right but do not think for one second that these guys are doing anything to make our job easier or bring it to another level for our industry cause the truth is they don't give 2 fucks about any of us or our industry they are just jumping on a fad wanting to get rich. With them it's not about advances and perserving anything they are just a parasite sucking what they can till the next thing they feel can get them rich comes along.
Frank
The only thing i got to say is I am kinda glad lace made one because it pushed john to come out with a much better/lighter machine that looks like it will totally kick ass all over the lace! Also it has help spread the word to newer tattooers about john machines that did not know about them before.On the upside I think john is old school and would not have wanted to sell to the yuppie/you owe me something crowd that lace will cater to anyways.So John think of lace as a way to weed out that crowd of people and get free promos for your goods to the new young guys that are being taught in a traditional manner.John, For every negative there is a plus side-you just got to find it. ;)
There is absolutely no such thing as bad press. All this drama is doing, and is going to do, is put more money in the builder's pockets. Whether it's Lacenano or John Clark, they are both benefiting from this whole ordeal and getting free advertisement from it. I don't understand the fad you are talking about? It seems to me that the current fad in regards to tattoo machines at the moment are cartridge specific machines.
i can say that while, i do not plan to buy a lace nano, that i have a few machines i use that are working fine for me at the moment. no need to fix what isn't broken, right?
I do agree that the nano will push john to improve even more his machine as the new breed of tattooists pushed the older guys improve their tattoo skills in order to continue to work .i ve seen tattooists with 5years of experience do pieces that blow my head of,especially the ones that do photo realism. For my case sometimes i bang my head on the wall seeing kids that have no clue of the tattoo culture, or dont know how to tune a machine ,or make a needle ,come out from a graphic design university go to a tattoo school (wtf?!?!) and do tattoos that took me years to learn how to do because back then a lot of things were kept secret and not for all.i cant do anything though but to try to improve myself and my skills.it does leave a bitter taste in my mouth saying this.as for the nano i wouldnt buy something from a guy that has no tattoos because in my head its as if he doesnt like them or doesnt approve what i wear and why i do it.i have a friend though who doesnt think this way and purchased a nano.so i told him i want to see this thing that made upset half of the tattoo world.
First thought when i saw it was the size defines the name. Smallest thing i ever saw .so is the weight.when i plugged it on the p.s. i noticed that the vibrations could satisfy any woman just by holding it in her hand.thats the drawback of lacking weight.but what really made me say man you just threw 600 plus euros in the trash was the ups and downs of the rotation.it sounded like a heartbeat instead of a continuous hum.i tweaked the screws for stroke and give and at some points it was improved but it was not eliminated. When its loaded the vibrations seem less but still its the worst machine i run on that point.the give is nothing like ive seen before.i cant say it exists or it doesn't. Its either hard or too soft.no in between steps.from what i saw i didnt want to use it on a tattoo.and all this gave me the impression that its overestimated.600 euro is waaaay much for it.
I will post a pic or video of how I have the machine set up to run quite, very minimal vibration with disposable tubes and consistent. The area of the needle bar that gets tension put on it from the rubber band is pretty high up on these machines but I figured out a way to get the band down lower and it makes a big difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXCTYTKXy-k
Looks like a quiet machine, about the vibration... Did you try it with long strokes?
The stroke I have it adjusted to in the video is what I like to line at. I'm not sure exactly what it is (I haven't measured it) but as long as the needle bar has the correct amount of tension on it, it is quite and vibration is minimal throughout the stroke range. As mentioned, mounting the rubber band as far down on the needle bar as you can makes a huge difference.
Update on the Lace machine. After solely running this machine for the past few weeks all of it's annoying quirks started to come through. If (and that's a big if) you can get the right amount of tension on the needle (b/c someone thought it'd be a good idea to only be able to secure the needle up at the top, you know, as far away from the tip as possible) it'll run great until your rubber band moves, wind blows, etc then you get annoying needle rattle, vibration, the machines runs inconsistent, etc. The vice is ok, not great. I really wanted to like this thing and gave it a real honest effort but once the "new machine feel" wore off (kind of like the honeymoon period of a new girlfriend haha) I became more and more unimpressed with it. The fact it can be autoclaved is nice, I really like that but not really a necessity if you bag and clean your machine and being able to adjust stroke and give on the fly is nice too but the needle tension issue just got way too annoying for me to deal with. This machine needs quite a bit of refining in my opinion. I'll be going back to my Gen 8's. Hopefully someone perfects this magnetic drive concept soon b/c being able to change stroke and hit on the fly without stopping or putting anything down or tools is pretty awesome. A for effort but these guys got some bugs to work out of this thing if they're going to compete with other machine builders. In my opinion, fuck the brushless motor, get a good motor so you don't need a special power supply or cord, a good quality needle bar tensioner to get the perfect amount of tension every time without fucking with rubber bands so machine runs smooth and consistent and be able to adjust stroke and hit easily on the fly with no tools through a bag, 3-4 ounce machine weight. There is definitely potential in magnetic drive rotaries. Maybe Clark perfected it with his new machine he posted?? I'd be curious to see a video of it running.
Yea those little things are what tattoo artist will find, specially on a machine that was built by college kids and not industry specialist... I posted a pic of all the issue this design had before it hit the market and that the vice was to close to the a bar and it would leave little room for the tension to be in a lower position to apply tension. The brushless motor is all this machine has to offer but they still could of did more research to power it. They went with the first most easiest way to power that motor instead of finding a way to make it universal for all artist to plug n play. It can be done and has been available for sometime now. Why the college kids and there financial backers didnt realise this is good question.John is a genius I must say and lace will be ditching the power supply soon. They just need to wait and see what John does.
Like I mentioned when I started this review. I bought the machine purely out of curiosity and to see for myself what all the hype was about and if I didn't like it I would post and let everyone know why. It paid for itself with the tattoos I've done with it so I don't feel like I'm out anything but I won't be using it anymore, it's literally that annoying to work with. I do love the versatility of the magnetic drive, a lot. Does Johns new machine require tools to adjust the stroke and hit?? The weight on his seems like it'd be nice and comfortable. I know we got off on the wrong foot Cyberitual with this review but I honestly just wanted to let people know if this machine was any good or not and after spending several weeks and hours with it (I tattoo 6 days a week, 8 hour days and Mon and Wed are 12-14 hour days) I wouldn't recommend this machine to anybody. I was impressed at first with the newness of it and the features but after that wears off you're left with an inconsistent machine that you can't get the needle to quit rattling around. I literally tried everything, every size rubber band, different ways to mount them. Some methods worked good for a little bit but the rattle always came back or the tension messed up the consistency of the machine. Lesson learned from buying a machine from non tattooers. Tattooing everyday a lot of things become second nature that you don't think about or think would be common sense like the needle tension issue on this machine but I guess to someone who doesn't have any tattoo experience they don't know the importance of little details like that that will make a HUGE difference. All in all I ended up doing John a big favor. I bought the Lacenano, spent plenty of time with it, tried extremely hard to like it and get it to perform consistently and the final verdict for anyone looking to buy one, IT FUCKING SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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End of review.
I think this review has been really informative it really does validate the superiority of the Clark machine :cool:
That's all i meant for it to be was informative. I've never tried one of Clark's magnetic rotaries, the weight and needle stopping outside the tube was a turn off for me, but would be curious to try one of the new ones he posted once they're out. Honestly though, the Stealth is a superior machine to the Lacenano so it's not going to take a whole lot on his end to trump the Lace. I've never ever got so irritated with a machine before that I tossed it in the trash. I'm not even interested in selling to anyone b/c no matter how little I sold it for I feel I'd be ripping them off, it's that annoying to work with. I don't know who their test artists were that have been testing this for over a year or whatever but it took me 3-4 weeks to debunk this thing and that was really, honestly trying to give it a chance. I'm glad you found the review informative, that's all I meant for it to be. All the hype was just that...hype funded by deep pockets. They failed at the most important part, delivering a solid machine to the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmokingmirror