Yeah, I was as patient as I could be. But I too have requested a refund. I'm starting to doubt I will ever see it. But if I do get it I will be able to afford a new direkt from Fk. I guess I can only hope at this point :(
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Yeah, I was as patient as I could be. But I too have requested a refund. I'm starting to doubt I will ever see it. But if I do get it I will be able to afford a new direkt from Fk. I guess I can only hope at this point :(
I think people would be more understanding if he just let us know the problems he's facing. That's all people want. Just updates on here nothing else. It's not hard to say a quick few words and a few pics. But now it's got out of control.
Plus you would never be awarded more than you put in. You can't argue lost wages when you bought in to a pre release machine. By the time you factor In Lawyer fees, you would be lucky if everyone got a check for 100$
its would be interesting how much are ripping off - he says thats only 25 Machines in preorder sale ... but i dont think thats only 25 people ripped !
maybe the admin can start a poll and every press the button to see how much have order a machine. Than we have a number and a amount thats ripped off. And we have the info -he is bussy or lies ,because when he have more than 25 machine in pre-sale than he have not write the truth and we knowing the money is gone.
What's the point? What will that accomplish? It won't get machines delivered or money returned. Those details don't help, and may not even provide an accurate account of how many people bought into the pre order.
I agree. And you said it best Throwhammers, if you aren't willing to take the risk don't buy a preordered machine. The only thing anyone can do is put it behind and live and learn. Also yo hope for the best. I imagine he will do what he can to come through
This is a prime case of something that has become a cancer in business in general not just tattooing. What is it with people selling a product they don't even have and expecting payment in full up front. I just had this happen to me over an ammo order. I see it happen all over the motorcycle parts world.
What the hell is going on? If you don't have the product in your hands to sell then quit trying to sell it. People will say its like investing in a new company. No its not. Its theft in my opinion. You took my money up front with nothing to give me in return. If you need investors then say you need investors. At least at that point I can expect not to get my money back and make the decision on whether or not to give you money.
And to all of us stupid idiots that keep falling for the so called "pre-sale", we deserve what we get for being dumb enough to think people in todays world even have the slightest idea of what honor and integrity even means much less have any. (wow now thats a run on sentence, LOL)
Sorry just had to vent and this looked as good a place as any.
<RANT OVER>
paypal tells me when he ripped a lot of people they could make some to get the money back -but for this its needs more as one ! thats the case - but ok , let him your money and let him make the same again maybe. So its not really surprising that something always happens. We pay and when we dont get any is all ok too :D
I just got a message from paul yesterday. He said he's still working on machining one more new part for the machine and then they are going out . He knows everyone is bent out of shape and he said he'll make it up to everyone. He said anyone can call him anytime to ask whats going on, and that he has virtually no income since he's been working on the machines.
I think if he was really stealing from everyone, he would not have emailed me. I'm going to give him a call tonight or tomorrow.
I just got off the phone with Paul from Valient. He's a super nice guy who answered all of my questions and gave me a rundown of the situation and what he's working on and why the machines are taking so much longer than expected.
He told me he is always available if anyone wants to call. He said he hasn't posted much because when he does he gets inundated with mails and messages. But, as he said, feel free to call him.
He said he pretty much has everything invested in what he's doing now, and if he wanted to steal peoples money he would have allowed other people who wanted to pre order to do so (as it is, he only sold 25 machines, though he had requests for more).
He's held back releasing the machines to address some issues he found with the design. This is a good thing. I hope this helps some of you guys put your minds at ease. If not, well, just call him!
Paul said intends to post an update in the immediate future.
Always good to see that you take initiative and have a level head Throwhammers
Same story I heard from him back around Christmas. Hes a nice guy but I am at the point where honestly he should be updating people more than every six months.
I agree hes a nice enough guy but his lack of updates has pissed a lot of people off. It will be pretty hard to redeem himself to a lot of these people.Im just glad my payment was on credit card, so I was able to get the money back. I wish you luck with his machines but his lack of info, updates and follow through has me seriously concerned about what the service would be like if there were every issues with the machine.
Again, not trying to be a dick, but if it comes across that way - meh..
i have never get any reply or any other infos - only 1 times after 3 month because i want my money back .... maybe some gets better info -but i´m working every day in the shop and in europa ,so its not so easy to call him or send a lot of pms. On his FB page or website i have never get any reply ,only after i have write here.
Dude, I work every day too, and I'm in Switzerland, and have a baby and a life. I managed to find the time to call.
Like I wrote, and like he told me, he may not be writing messages back to everyone, but he is always available if you call him.
A lot of the people complaining the most have never even called, they just get mad when they don't get a pm or FB message back from him.
The entire world does not operate via facebook. Telephones exist for a reason. And, for whatever reason, Paul has chosen to, for the moment, keep in contact via telephone (but people have to make the effort to call).
I have texted him several times and he was almost always good about getting back to me within the day. he was always courteous and explained the situation. However, I did go ahead and request a refund. I am hoping it comes. But as a person I feel like he is a good person. As far as a machine e builder, I can't really have an opinion, as I never got a machine.
throwhammers - i have a baby too and a littl family ,i have to get the money for my family alone. I work from 10:30 to 22:00 oclock -sometimes to 24:00 !
Dude, I'm not trying to fight with you, I'm just saying if it's so important to everyone on here, if they are so sure they are being ripped off, then I'm sure they can find 10 minutes to call Paul (and actually get an answer or some information) instead of complaining over and over on here (which does nothing in terms of getting something done).
I talked to paul. If i get a machine I'll be super happy. If not, well, I lost out on that one. The money is long gone. I've stated my opinion on this enough times.
It's pretty simple. It's like investing in the stock market. If you can't afford to lose the money, don't invest (in the stock market or in a machine pre-sale). Maybe for some people this is a lesson learned, albeit a hard one.
Everyone here are, hopefully, adults. There is a possibility to speak to the man himself. You can either use that possibility and get some answers, or don't and keep complaining to each other on here.
If I need more information, I'll call paul again, until then I'm not going to worry about it. Hopefully I get a machine, maybe I won't. Life goes on.
Any more info? Things have gone dead for a while... bloody hell it's now July I'm sure things would have moved on a little bit by now
Would anyone like to pre-order one of my machines? It's the lightest rotary on the planet, pushes any cartridge with ease, adjustable give and stroke on the fly with no need for tools, fully autoclavable and new proprietary motor is guaranteed to last for life and comes with a lifetime warranty. The best part of my new machine is when you're done tattooing it cleans up, blows you and cooks you dinner. I accept all major credit cards, cash or paypal.
That's productive👆
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That's a LaceNano then....
i have get my money back -so this is close for me :)
how did you do it?
Any new news?
Never heard from the guy. He's got my money still! No machine ever received....
a few one have get a machine thats not running and get a second replacement. They told me its was running like a hyper v3 but more worse. The big amount of buyers have never get any. And after the years is the demanding expire. The Demanding is only guildy when you send a invitation -but all here have give him the time and so its expire.
Thing is, i sent admin a message and never got a reply either! I bought in good faith that the website has a good name
And that should,ve been enough....
i learnt to never trust anyone ever again since then because of that and thats a shame for the ones who are trying their hardest to break in the industry but going from a big name, at least guaranties at least a product.
Case closed but bitter taste in my mouth.....
Yep I think he was out to just recoup the money he spent on the materials and never was going to send any thing out. Shame could have spent the money at fkiron on a direct x ... but no machine no money. We all got ripped off.
The thing that seems to be happening in all industries now is preordering. It's stupid in my opinion. Why do I have to pay for something in advance so I can cover your material costs so you can make an assload of money. I don't agree with it one bit.
It's happening in the video game industry too. Preorder a game and it gets pushed back and some even get cancelled. This is just a shame I hope all involved have it made right.
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I emailed him a while ago but never heard back. Coming up on two years of waiting. If he eventually delivers, great. But I've pretty much chalked it up as a loss. Sucks, I had high hopes for this machine and for Paul.
The other frustrating thing about preorders is it seems almost like beta testing. You pay to get one of the first batch and support the builder. And a few weeks later they come out with an improved version that's better than the preorder. I'll be waiting to see how a machine performs and what upgrades happen before I buy a new one, from here on out.
If you ever see it or him. I don't know how people can be like that. You got to have some thick skin to do this to at least 50 people. Then still goto conventions and if you ever sort it out you can't sell it as the 50 will be out for blood. We should keep the thread going so it keeps it the eye so people might have other info.. If they see him about.
I'm pretty positive he has refunded most people's moneys a long time ago.
I didn't receive a refund or a machine..
How can you say you're pretty positive he refunded most people?!? I heard nothing from him and i tried to contact him just like quite a few people.
but hey you're pretty positive he refunded most prople.... Oh good! I feel so much better about the bloke!
Thing is we are in a special type of industry! Yes it's "stupid" to pay in advance but the reason i did it is because i'm an honest hard working person who tried to support the little guy and expected to be treated with respect by a peer.....
Anyway, apparently he refunded most people. I must count for nothing in this equation then....
On the buy sell trade group on facebook he was responding to people and offered a refund like 6 months ago. I had just saw almost everyone there was saying they had received a refund. I guess there is more people out there that hadn't received one. Sorry.
I called and texted the number on his site and he responded no problems.
Yeah. I would love to get my refund. No such luck