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HELLO guys, just i was thinking this, why everybody can build and evolve many rotary models, now is the time of Pen style example, but if u try to done your version of Clarck magnetic or Dan Kubin sidewinder u are consider a MTF ????
i would like to hear opinion form builder like @gaston and other serious one
i think soon as a company like cheyenne made a one it opened a flood gate to copy the shit out of it. why i dont know manly chinese copies perhaps.. Before that only a few builders touched on it. Yea look at the battle of john clark and lacenano .. figure that one out? That is a prime example.
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MTF ?
Well, part of the problem with Lace Nano is that the guys that make it are not tattooers. Nothing more even needs to be said about that.
Im not aware of a Sidewinder copy other than those that the Koreans counterfeited.
have a lot of machines and tattoo products that come out from a NON TATTOO ARTISTS, so many specially now, the LACE NANO yes was 100% made just to make profit, thats all, but in a certain way have create a evolution of the Clarck machine
about Pen rotary, so many start build, and we end up with FKirons create the best one, can change stroke and give, if no one can produce a pen style but only the first builder have create, at this moment we still have the first one that probable was not even good
im sure if some builder , even myself , can start evolution of Kubin or Clarck, gonna come out a much better products, like is happen with all the machines now in the market
I agree to an extent. Centri makes a magnetic rotary that is "John Clarke approved"
and I would love to see something compete with sidewinder. I'll be hard pressed to buy a machine from a guy who doesn't tattoo though.
Ray from Neo Tat doesn't tattoo and he made the 1st popular linear slider rotary. He's sold a shed load and is pretty well respected. I believe a lot is how the builders conduct themselves within the profession including service, pricing etc...
And I don't own a neo-tat... but that being said, he was an original innovator.
Also cheyenne they dont tattoo same goes for inkmachines both was at the fore front of the rotary explosion and could say without them perhaps we still would be all using coils.. so that excuse of i dont buy from a non tattooing company is crap. The same goes with carts and all the other gadgets we use today buying from only tattooist run companies will put you back in the dark ages.. not only that some people get ideas same time as others and they live thousands of miles apart, so a magnetic rotary could have been made years ago way before john clark thought about it making one but because it was before bullshit interweb knowone ever gets to see it. What makes me laugh is how many machines are just the same, every slide machine is the same, same goes with the dragonfly look machines, now the magi is a hawk without the front cap hiding the cam, people copy world wide. You can make a dd with a flite cam for £30 if you have the right tools piss easy and it works just as good as a £400 rotary. This proves my point the whole thing so far is a flite v2 2.5 and 4 cam with my modded push/real give bars the feathers on the chest are a dd i made with a old hawk 2.5 cam cost me £10 to make including the motor. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a9d13cace4.jpg
The only difference is had to go darker because its a cover up
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...87ce89ca1f.jpg
But as my mentor once sead to me there isnt a golden machine out there that puts it in the skin perfect every time so dont bother looking, as he pointed to a drawfull of machines.. if it uses the same motor it will probally tattoo the same as all the rest with the same motor. Maybe the name might help you in your mind or the sponsored artist you saw using it.. 9 times out of 10 its because you are good at art/copying nothing more..
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Well, I don't own Ink Machines or anything from Cheyene either. I think when it comes down to buying things like ink caps and other disposable stuff it's absurd to only buy from tattooer owned companies. However, to say that my opinion about only buying machines from tattooers is crap and an excuse is pretty rude buddy. An excuse for what may I ask? Builders that are also tattooers are a minority at the rate things are going and they are mostly self sufficient small business owners. Personally, I prefer to support individuals. I have yet to discover a machine fabricated by a company of investors who don't know how to tattoo that does a better job than something a working tattooer crafted. Maybe Im missing out on something, but Im ok with that. I will continue to keep my money out of the pockets of profit driven interlopers who have no real understanding or love for the actual act of all that it requires to be a tattooer.
.. with rotaries it comes down to engineering and most tattooist havent the first clue about it most of them cant even tattoo, im sure if we came into your shop there be something that hasnt been designed and made by a tattooist, like i sead thats a dark age thoughts...Oh who was the inventor of the first tattoo machine? Mr edison perhaps and all coil machines are based on his ideas perhaps and he wasnt a tattooist, he was a engineer. Every idea has come from non tattooers at 1st then tattooist have used it. And every company out there including tattooists making machines are out for money and making profit thats why you see them making the same machine over and over with nothing more than a few tweaks money money money. My 1st post proves it. £10 machine against a £400 there isnt much profit in that is there... no not much but it done the same job, but it didnt look as nice as that lump of alloy all coloured and bright. You need to open your eyes and stop living in the dark ages, do you think fki is just about tattooists haha god no its about selling as much stuff and making shit loads of profit all them cnc machines dont pay for themselfs. You see mr top tattooist being sponsored why money and profit because you will fall for the premises that if you have the same as him/her you'll be just as good. If you think for one moment its not then, you are a fool...its not the 1960s anymore its a cut throat business, with studios popping up everywhere getting a piece of the very small pie... if it wasnt about money and profit why is tattooists charging over £70+ a hour for a tattoo then? We all know it dosent cost that by a million miles we could all do tattooing at £20 and still make money.. because we want stuff homes cars bikes clothes etc otherwise you would charge £20...............
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You are making presuppositions about my statements. When did I imply that owning a machine made or used by tattooer X would allow one to tattoo like tattooer X?
Also, your own statement about building your own machines validates my opinion. You, a tattooer, were able to make something that works better than the machines produced by non tattooers and for less money. At least I think that's what you said you did?
You are missing my point about profit$. Of course it's about earning more than a simple living wage. That is a no brainer. However, I choose to give my hard earned money to the independent guy who has a soul and a love for THE CRAFT, NOT THE "INDUSTRY". I feel like you are criticizing me for not wanting to be a part of the corporate hijacking of tattooing. I can't totally escape it and yes there are PLENTY of things that I use in my shop that a tattooer didn't make. When I can though, I keep my money where my mouth is and make an effort to have some honor.
I don't own any FK IRONS either, although I am not opposed to them. I hope you have a nice futuristic and profitable weekend. Cheers.
I think this can be discussed without bashing anyone, right? I own Dan Kubins, Fki and a slew of others. yes there is a difference to the opinions of some when FKI is copied rather than dan cabin, hell or even amoeba designs for that matter, which i also have one and absolutely love the uniqueness of.
When a builders design or innovation is straight up ripped off its a disrespectful thing.
True, that is the way it is seen in this industry, yet look at oil, farming, technology, any other industry, one idea is built upon over and over and over again.
Yes, but this is Tattooing. Its unique . Its like nothing else. I understand the comparisons to make a point, but I don't really feel that they are applicable. Tattooing allows you to forge a life like no one else. Why do people want it to be what it isn't and take all the soul out of it? I don't want to be involved in some other industry full of honorless pigs. When I was younger I didn't understand why everyone was so tight lipped and cagey about all the secrets but I sure do understand now. Tattooing is very special to me and the older I get the more I grasp why it needs to be protected from mediocre leaching.
The same should be said for any artist that has a very distinctive style of tattoo work,yet it is not. There are some fairly big names that have made an absolute career from copying a style exactly, not even trying to own it.
Truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonmull
the problem is this, if someone famous use the idea of someone else, all is cool, is is a local unknow builder or tattoo artists, is a bastard, sound like most of the time is like that
we dont talk about chinese that just create a fake machines,
first of. What's up everyone. Long time no see youQuote:
Originally Posted by hellraiser6662
To clarify your statement. FK Irons is about creating great products. Great product result in customers attracted to what you produce therefore that's how we can fibabce your life and more R&D. We wouldn't have any need for CNC machines if we didn't have a demand. Most company outsource. It's cheaper and you put more in your pocket. We went the hard route. Less profit but more control of what we produce. So it's not about making money. It's about giving the best version of your vision.
If i would go to work for the money only I would have been in another industry when're money can be obtained with a lot less stress, grey hairs, traveling and more hours of sleep. ��
Since day day one I have been pouring it back to the business growing the company and pushing equipment a notch higher with every release.
We we are in it because we love coming to work everyday. When you love your craft and give it all daily it Usually pays off.
I am really thsbksful of the support of our customers and industry and very proud to be part of it and why not... being part of the history of tattoo equipment making.
Glad to to see everyone doing great.
To me it makes sense to buy a machine made by a tattooer "in theory" but honestly I loved my neotat and didn't think twice about buying rays machine because to my knowledge ray built his neotat prototype for his artist to try out because he felt like he could make a more efficient machine and as a client/collector he is a part of the industry too. To my knowledge the lace nano guys don't have tattoos and probably aren't really into the industry like most tattooers and collectors . They solely want to make money off of a growing industry that they are not a part of. That's the difference between byying a neotat or a dragonfly versus buying a lace nano or a Chinese knock off. Just because someone doesn't tattoo doesn't mean they aren't a part of the industry but just because they can make a product that allows you to put ink into someone's skin doesn't mean they should be a part of our industry if that makes sense. It is very rare that a great tattooer also has the engineering capability to build a proper tattoo machine . In most cases it takes a relationship between the tattooer and the engineer to make a proper machine especially if it is going to be a new concept
I wake up at 630 am, Take the kids to school, and then start building. Cobras, Evader, Switches and Auroras as i build my orders as they come in, then i pick the kids up from school, and go back to assembling. I tattoo on the days i do not have my kids. I do not stock my shelves with products, i do not pump out 1000s of items to cock sucking distributors. i have zero employees, I am a one man show... The funny thing is that these big guys and corps have all this overhead trying to keep a big head... Thats a ship waiting to sink. I really appreciate though how our industry has a brotherhood that keeps those roaches in check. Buy local, buy real, support those who earn it.