Machine weights?

You may know I built coils since the early 90's and to rotaries, then onto my own machines in 2004. I designed the NeoTat with weight and balance in mind and I thought the weight was right at 5.6 oz. Noticing the industry going to lighter machines, I introduced the Vivace coming in at 4 oz to help with the weight that artists were asking me for. So now I am noticing a trend in our sales that shows that a number of artists who have bought the lighter Vivace and then purchased the heavier NeoTat machine go on to like it a little better.....because of the weight.

So now I am getting requests for heavier machines.....sort of like the old school coils.....the 7 - 8 oz ones.....kinda full circle here. Remember the 11 oz beasts!?

I can make heavy carved brass or bronze machines that would look cool, but I'm just not into making collectable machines.....I want to provide daily drivers....I'm sure some of you will want to hit me on the head!

My question is......is there any perfect weight or is it just personal preference? and, what is your choice?

-Ray

Anything between 4 & 7 oz works fine for me.

I think there's the feeling of heavy = solid. Probably wrong most of the time, but the first thing I do is to kida bounce the machine in my hand even before thumbing it. If it s too light there s this not solid-almost like a toy feeling, which is untrue but I guess it s involontary. ie : I would tend to think that my RW or HM would last longer than my stigma hyper or benefits of a better craftmanship, but then again I know it's stupid and totally unrelated.

I believe it's more about balance. I've used heavy brass machines with great balance that have felt lighter because of the weight distribution.

I think there is definitely to light (under 2.5oz), I think that 4oz to 6oz is a good feel on the wrist and hand. I would like to buy a vivace with an added ounce or two, I love brass:)

I feel when you get a rotary machine to light you have to push the needles more-so i use a heavy grip to add a bit of weight. I have some realy heavy coils but they have the weight forward so they are not to bad-but I use a bit smaller metal with rubber gorilla grips on them to absorb the vibrations.
I did like the first neo's but they seem abit off balance most of the weight was toward the back.

I like lighter 3-6 oz machines, especially now that I use only disposable tubes. It's always nice to have that weight balance as close to the needle bar as possible. I'd love to see, and have plans to eventually make some cast bronze rotaries. Love a high-tech daily driver that looks vintage.

Wish someone would make cheap simple brass donut weights(maybe 5-10mm tall) that can be slid onto a tubeshank between the grip and machine. Might help add an ounce in a nice centered location. I might have to go to home depot soon and play with stainless and brass washers.

I also believe its more about balance rather than weight. I have some heavier machines that feel weightless with stainless tubes, but feel like a ton with disposables. Just the opposite with my lighter ones. I don't think there is a magic number that every one will agree on. Its all based on personal preference and there are too much variables..... Even the thickness of grips change the way the machine feels.

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Originally Posted by Sage Oz

Wish someone would make cheap simple brass donut weights(maybe 5-10mm tall) that can be slid onto a tubeshank between the grip and machine. Might help add an ounce in a nice centered location. I might have to go to home depot soon and play with stainless and brass washers.

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there was a company that had those years ago, but I can't remember who it was. the only problem was it would get in the way of the vise on some machines

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Originally Posted by Sage Oz

Wish someone would make cheap simple brass donut weights(maybe 5-10mm tall) that can be slid onto a tubeshank between the grip and machine. Might help add an ounce in a nice centered location. I might have to go to home depot soon and play with stainless and brass washers.

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No disrespect, but just buy bigger grips surely?

I like a mid weight machine. The old Neo is about perfect for me. I love the near zero vibration. The weight makes it effortless. When I get it dialed in it just feels natural. I have a lighter machine and I love it, it has speed and power. However there is a lot more vibration, especially when using disposables. I would love a brass or bronze Neo. I think that no matter what direction you choose, someone will like it and buy it. The market is a little saturated, more so everyday. But it has been that way with coils for a long time.

The weight and balance of my Neo Tat suits me perfect..All of my other machines distract me from the tattoo process in one form or another...to light, to heavy, un balanced etc. I don't want to fight with my machine while I'm tattooing, I don't want to think about my machine at all. It's all about being able to focus on the art. The original Neo Tat is like a wall flower...It's great. Just my 2 cents.

I like the neotat and rotaryworks, neotat is the better balanced of the 2 ...tho i've recently started using coils again a bit and tbh the weight is kinda nice (steadying for linework for sure!)

The personal thing is what I do believe. You know, we hear of folks that love one machine and hate another and then visa-versa.....when both are fine machines. So there is no perfect "tattoo-o-matic" in the world.
I have built some special machines for artists and some I hate and others I can't see them working worth a shit......then only to feel very nice. I'm going to try doing more onesy-twosy machines just to break up the norm. I want to put some more of me in some machines......but not just to have display items. That would dissapoint me to make a machine just to be a poser.

Kinda why I'm asking you guys.

I have done the custom anodizing.....done the engraving....the special machining.....but nothing so far has really done it for me. I've done some metal coloring and such, but what I want to do is relief carving in say brass....but the brass gets heavy. A Neotat in brass is about 10 oz and a Vivace in brass is 7. Carving would lighten the load....but not that much.
Then......The time involved. It becomes a labor of love.....have done blacksmithing and metal art in the past and if you like working for .10 cents an hour....it's great.
Plus....having done commisioned work, it gets to me when I can't finish the piece. In fact, it drives me nuts! Can't get in the right groove and energy to be creative or.... got the vision and have to finish another bunch of parts and can't put forth the time.

None of you have the same problem.......right? lol

I know.....off topic, again. It's an OF thing.

I would love to see some photos, sounds like some incredible stuff!

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Originally Posted by peter clements

No disrespect, but just buy bigger grips surely?

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I'm already using 1" grips and covers. I used one of my steel coil shaders with a plastic tube the other day for a small tat and it was so crazy top heavy. I almost always have 10-15mm space between my grip and vice so the spacer weight would work well for me.

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Originally Posted by Sage Oz

I'm already using 1" grips and covers. I used one of my steel coil shaders with a plastic tube the other day for a small tat and it was so crazy top heavy. I almost always have 10-15mm space between my grip and vice so the spacer weight would work well for me.

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Get some round stock stainless, a band saw, and a drill press and make some prototypes. Or make it out of cast iron and have it powder coated.

Hey Ray...just send them to me...I'll carve them up all fancy :)

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Originally Posted by Sage Oz

I'm already using 1" grips and covers. I used one of my steel coil shaders with a plastic tube the other day for a small tat and it was so crazy top heavy. I almost always have 10-15mm space between my grip and vice so the spacer weight would work well for me.

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I've a feeling you may be a Tattooer with big hands. These are the heaviest grips I've come accross,I have a couple and they're too much for me, you might like em though, cheaper than a band saw and a drill press.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1706697380...84.m1423.l2649

Yeah those are a good option too, I bought some of those to counter how light the treasure is. I don't use them often but they feel like chrome plated cast iron.

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Originally Posted by OwlsDen

Yeah those are a good option too, I bought some of those to counter how light the treasure is. I don't use them often but they feel like chrome plated cast iron.

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Yes ,we joked about how if you didn't like them ,take a 12" section of rubber hose stuff the grip into one end ,and you have a lethal blackjack.

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Originally Posted by peter clements

Yes ,we joked about how if you didn't like them ,take a 12" section of rubber hose stuff the grip into one end ,and you have a lethal blackjack.

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I made grips for years.....had one turning center devoted to only making grips day in and day out. ....back in the day of making supplies for one of the big companies.

When they first came to me wanting the 1 inch and bigger grips, my comment at the time to them was...."so are these things for the tattoo artist to deal with customers who won't pay their bill? Just wack em over the head!" I did, and got a chuckle from the GM.

So, you too like whittling in metal?

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Originally Posted by Amoebadesigns

Hey Ray...just send them to me...I'll carve them up all fancy :)

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It's what I do...check out my machines...I carve almost anything I can carve on them, all one offs. It's therapy for me.

well ray I like the weight of the neo tat and it does feel solid. haven't used the new one yet so when I get one I will let you know!!

I think weight is personal preference, but I have a machine that is too light for me if I use my disposables it does feel like I have to push . I'm still getting used to the lightness of the rotary, compared to coils. The rotary machines are easier on my wrist , but when I'm lining I prefer a heavier machine, vs. The lighter the better if I am coloring or shading. The shape of the machine means more to me. This last machine that I'm getting rid of the only reason I'm parting with a this because of the shape. It sits ackward when I'm trying to turn my tube to get to certain areas of the tattoo. I prefer the tighter shaped machines ie. Neotat, rapier 2 , Swiss to the elongated ones that barely can even be bagged.

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Originally Posted by Amoebadesigns

It's what I do...check out my machines...I carve almost anything I can carve on them, all one offs. It's therapy for me.

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Hey that would look slick for sure! carved up brass would be sure to attract coil lovers.:cool:

I will post up some pictures when I get a chance.....I am not having good internet service right now.....again. Small town (third world) stuff. This is America.....we should have the best?
Cable company working on the fiber and we may not have service....any time.
hope this goes????

I think the original neotatt with disposable tubes feels the best.

Hello

i think the weight is realy personal like, so don exist the perfect weight, is good have maybe 2 or 3 model with different weight, so the people can choose, that's all

According to my experience is just about the type of grip and the way of tattoing. With disposable tubes heavy machines tends to be unbalanced and the light ones for some artists tends to be not enough heavy for lining or coloring.
Personally the ligthes the better, cos i use almost entirely disposable grips. Expecially with magnum , when during a tattoo i need to turn the machine a lot of times i prefer light rotaries or alluminium coils, I noticed with eavy machine to tend to suffer wrist pain after ours of tattoing.