Very much appreciate NeoTat advice

My only experience with rotary machines thus far is one of the first workhorse ones and I kinda go back and forth as to how I feel about it. Sometimes its love and sometimes its disdain ( it seems like from time to time the motor is going out, after having it replaced once already, and doesn't have a smooth flow to the power). At any rate after using it I can definitely see the advantages that rotary machines have to offer and I feel I have finally decided on a NeoTat vivace as my second rotary to grow with.

I understand that it comes in three different strokes and I have read the description of them but I was wanting a little user feed back. First off I am wanting it for a smooth blending machine. I am not interested in lining with it and I'm not interested in packing solid colour like that of a tribal or some other large solid field of colour. I would like to do smooth transitions of colour first, and if possible gray scale secondly as my priorities. If one of those three strokes can accomplish both then that is great, but I'm more interested in the smooth colour blend because I feel my relay machine (seth ciferri wiener dog) already gives me very good results for gray.

I appreciate the time anyone of you take to read over this and even more so if you could give me an experienced response. Honestly I don't fully understand the concept of what makes a good rotary or what to look for for the desired effect like I do with my more advanced knowledge of relay machines so I could really use some help. Thank you very much in advance.

To it seems like on any directdrive rotary-such as a bishop,neo, etc the longer the stoke (within reason)is the better for packing and lining. I had the first 2.5 Neo and it can do some really smooth colorblends -which is now listed as the shortstroke for the neo vivace. I have now got the 3.5 neo vivace which seems better for lining but is still a good allrounder. I have a directdrive that is like the first 1.8 neo and that stroke length seems to be great for bng were you use a scrubmotion.I have heard the 4.2 vivace is a colorpacking/powerliner beast but not tried it yet altho i do have a directdrive with that stoke length and it runs that way.
So I would say the 2.5 in ether model if your going to use it just for color blending.Also the longer the stroke=more volts and noise.
Of course there is alot of guys on here that have been useing them for years with great results in all strokes.the founder of this forum allie does amazing work with them and has had them all I think.
They also run great with the t-tech set up which lets you crank the volts even more and cuts down on noise at top volts.

I would get the Ned stroke Neo. I have the original Neo-Tat and I have done black and grey, color blending, and color packing. Not to mention lining with 5 rounds and tight 7s.

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Originally Posted by Dane

My only experience with rotary machines thus far is one of the first workhorse ones and I kinda go back and forth as to how I feel about it. Sometimes its love and sometimes its disdain ( it seems like from time to time the motor is going out, after having it replaced once already, and doesn't have a smooth flow to the power). At any rate after using it I can definitely see the advantages that rotary machines have to offer and I feel I have finally decided on a NeoTat vivace as my second rotary to grow with.

I understand that it comes in three different strokes and I have read the description of them but I was wanting a little user feed back. First off I am wanting it for a smooth blending machine. I am not interested in lining with it and I'm not interested in packing solid colour like that of a tribal or some other large solid field of colour. I would like to do smooth transitions of colour first, and if possible gray scale secondly as my priorities. If one of those three strokes can accomplish both then that is great, but I'm more interested in the smooth colour blend because I feel my relay machine (seth ciferri wiener dog) already gives me very good results for gray.

I appreciate the time anyone of you take to read over this and even more so if you could give me an experienced response. Honestly I don't fully understand the concept of what makes a good rotary or what to look for for the desired effect like I do with my more advanced knowledge of relay machines so I could really use some help. Thank you very much in advance.

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With any machine, be it xl, l, m, or s (yes, the vivace is actually available in 4 stroke lengths - some must be special ordered straight from neotat), depending on how far out you hang your needles and how fast you run them, you can get subtly different feels to the same machine.

Most people like a mid-stroke (or standard) for both black and grey as well as smooth color blends. I used to use exclusively long and extra long stroke machines for color, but I've been experimenting with the shorter strokes, and have really been liking the results so far.

Though some people like to line with the medium stroke machine, or run the short stroke machine on the tube to line, my favorite for lining are the longer strokes - but you don't want it to line with, so that is irrelevant to your decision.

The stroke you choose can sometimes be influenced by the types of ink you use too. If you tend to use very thick, powder pigments such as Waverly, I'd say go with the long stroke and don't hang your needles out that far (It is actually suggested to use a long stroke machine for Waverly ink). If you water down your ink, or if they are a little thinner, the medium or short stoke can work well for you. Check out Phil Garcia's work - I've been told he is a huge fan of the short stroke neotat for color blending. The shorter stroke machines can be a little tricky for some to get used to (needle snags) but it's just a matter of pulling your needles back up into the tube a little and it won't happen anymore.

The vivace is a nice machine - light in weight, but not too light. Where are you going to buy it from? I don't remember whether Eikon has both RCA and clipcord options - I like the clipcord, so I've been ordering mine straight from Neotat.

Eikon is RCA only.

I think needlejig and Unimax have some clipcord vivache machines. Otherwise you would need to call neotat and order direct. They dont keep much stock so usually when you order direct you wait about 2-3 weeks for it to ship.

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Originally Posted by Administrator

Eikon is RCA only.

I think needlejig and Unimax have some clipcord vivache machines. Otherwise you would need to call neotat and order direct. They dont keep much stock so usually when you order direct you wait about 2-3 weeks for it to ship.

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Sometimes you may wait longer if it's a very busy time of year. I'd expect to wait 5 weeks or so, and then just be pleasantly surprised if it comes early.

If you are after something beyond gold or black (the stock eikon colours) as the color of the machine you may be best calling NeoTat as well and just being patient. :)

I really do honestly appreciate all the input from you folks. I understand that I would probably enjoy the standard stroke for what I am trying to accomplish, possibly the long stroke.

I've been trying to do a lot of research into this because where I stand with my relays and the workhorse rotary I don't feel like I'm lacking. Purchasing a new machine isn't out of necessity as it is a want to better myself with new things. I've also been giving a lot of consideration towards the stigma, dragonfly, and the hawk as well. My personal style leans fairly heavily towards layering and going over colours I've already done and I've read in a few places that the NeoTat might not be my best option for that style. Knowing that would anyone say that maybe I should pursue a route with one of the other for mentioned machines?

I just want to make a really informed purchase if I'm sinking several hundred bucks into something that I don't technically need due to the satisfaction of my preexisting set up. Again thank you so much for any input.

If you dont like it there is always someone on here that might likley want to trade you for what you will like. :)

If you want a machine with a 'set' give, you can try a machine from Tattooed Pirate. They are well-loved on here, and VERY reasonably priced. I tried out a blunderbuss and passed it around to some friends - I don't believe he makes that machine any longer - but it was a really interesting intro to his machines. There was a little give, but not too much. I liked it for lining, color or even black and grey.

There is also the Nedz rotary with an interchangable spring system that some users are really enjoying.

These are just two off the top of my head - there may be others that I just can't think of at the moment.

I hear there are also some other builders who are also developing machines along this route, so keep an eye out. You may have a lot more options for machines with a little give before you know it.

yep rapiers can layer great plus do one pass stuff also check out ink pagoda word on here he does awesome stuff with them-layers etc.

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Originally Posted by Alie K

There was a little give, but not too much.

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That can also be said of Dan Kubin's "Cranker" I bet most of us don't realise there's a little dampening built in. How are you getting along with that nice pink one he made for you?