paulo cruzes rotaries

hey, i know some of you guys on here are not entirely happy with the new line of rotaries coming on to the scene from paulo, but besides your opinions on the design and paulo himself (personally i chat with him quite a bit and he seems like a very pleasant professional man) i would like to take a few minutes just to say that the rotary from him, is all round class.

i have the machine for what now, lil under a month, and im using it daily for every part, lining, packing, blending, shading, this machine does the lot. The hit is very adjustable to suit any need, the motor is quiet, strong and powerful, balance in my opinion couldnt be better, it is ultra light, very well built with quality parts, options of personalising with inscribing on the frame, i just cant fault it.

now while the design many may have seen and been some what offended by, i think everyones entitled to their own opinion and whilst many people will look upon something of this nature with disgust, my advice would be to look into the history of such like issues and decide for ones self. i find to many people in this industry are too quick to judge, bad mouth and slag off something/people because maybe they dont fully understand whats trying to be achieved maybe?
in the short term in the game, i have met some real arseholes, people who are all to ready to scream from hill tops all sorts of shit, cos they picture themselves on some platform that no other can reach or attain a similar level, and whilst those who are simply trying to progress in a new or similar direction, i think its a little harsh to be branding someone or something simply because they are trying to better themselves, products and their career.

i dont know hardly any of you guys on here, and ya can read this and disregard it all, call names etc, it really doesnt bother me, all im saying is i have read and heard what people are saying about him and the machines, and whilst again ill say your all totally entitled to your opinions, my advice for whats its worth is maybe try the machine then judge??

i recently spoke to paulo and he is developing new lines of rotaries at present, and will be opening a new website in which machines and all parts will be readily available. Me, all i can see is a guy trying something new to his regular line of work and offering a very good product and service with it, and working to be the best he can, whats the harm in that?

the guy that carves swastikas in ebay dragonflys ?

you have read that thread also then?!

you know, nobody gives two shits if someone builds a t-dial frame, bulldog frame, walker etc does anyone really give 2 fucks if someone uses a similar design on there coils, or starts cutting springs the same shape as someone else? is it bad business to take something available, modify it and improve it, or does a swastika simply make you blush?
people can and will say what they like not just about this but anything, but to slate something ya know only of through reading something on the internet, which is opinion....really.... thats the bullshit attitude what most tattooist bitch about in the first place

I talked to him ,he custom makes the frames etc and the other parts are better made ones equal to the dragonflys. Also he uses maxon motors.I like his new sayagata one -one sweet looking machine!

BUT HE SHOULD HAVE PERMISSION FIRST TO DO THIS AND PAY WHAT IS DUE TO THE ORIGINAL MAKERS, I DO BELIEVE IN PROGRESS BUT YOU MUST DO IT RIGHT!!

so you completley defend the stealth then? another rip off that seems to be the only one which you guys deem fit to use?
so anything copied runs well does it? does a $10 jackhammer copy run as good a swash?
and yeah please explain the part where i so obv fail to see the harm in trying to improve a product? i wonder if you would feel so passionate about a new manufacturer of tyres using the same principle as a well established supplier but simply changing the name and tread?
i have no problem with a swastika being on anything, i think its too easy too just say it was used as a marketing tool to bring attention to a product, and like you say there are many other symbols and icons that could have been used yes, but do you think the symbol of the devil would strongly offend the more religous minded tattooist in the world? would there be such a fuss, i doubt it!
yes i agree there are many of other builders available to chose there machines, and thats only a good thing, my problem here is yet again, people are so quick to jump to the earliest of conclusions and condem it, simply because you didnt like the machines, does that mean others wont? it seems that along with many aspects of the trade it comes down to personal preference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluerocker

you know, nobody gives two shits if someone builds a t-dial frame, bulldog frame, walker etc does anyone really give 2 fucks if someone uses a similar design on there coils, or starts cutting springs the same shape as someone else? is it bad business to take something available, modify it and improve it, or does a swastika simply make you blush?
people can and will say what they like not just about this but anything, but to slate something ya know only of through reading something on the internet, which is opinion....really.... thats the bullshit attitude what most tattooist bitch about in the first place

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coil machine builders that use old frame styles like say paul rogers usually do it as a nod to them and dont claim to be the inventor.we all know where the walker,bulldog and t-dial came from just as we know where the dragonfly came from and hes not cliaming that he simply modified it is he?if i buy a stealth off ebay, put in a better motor,sand off the pain and carve a peace sign in it am i the machines builder?no

ok so he says he's not buying the knock off dragonflys? i find that hard to believe since his machines poped up not long after the cheap dragonflys showed up. but who knows.and why would you replicate someone elses brand new design.theres infinate design possibilities but he took a dragonfly.that alone says alot about the builder

turnrock, with the frame styles....yeah i can see that to be fair, more of a paying homage to a great design, but were does the line come in from doing that to what others are saying paulos done, for me its not really any different. im sure that even with using famous frame designs the geometry will be slightly different or some other modifications that the builder saw to be an improvement on an original design, and for me thats all this guys done.
guys im not here to pick fights over this, i just figured it was only fair to give a different side toa story which i feel was was very one sided, i really think that if some of ya tried this or one of the other designs out ya would like them, from all the others that have purchased one no one has a bad word to say about them.

Hi Guys,
I have been reading a lot about Paulo and his rotary machines, people don't agree that it has a very similar frame to the Dragonfly, however it is not a knock-off from eBay, I have used one myself and it runs beautifully and us extremely well made, I haven't used a Dragonfly however so I can't comment on whether it runs better or not. I can say though, that Paulo is one of the nicest and most genuine guys I have ever had the pleasure to deal with, and his customer service is outstanding. I have a coil machine from his as does one of my colleagues and I really like it, he is currently building me a custom shader.
I don't know about the Dragonfly or Paulos rotary, I can only vouch for him as a person and can assure you he is not trying to steal anything or rip anyone off, I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with me and that's fine, everyone is entitled to thier opinion, but if you speak to Paulo I'm sure you will see he is a great guy!

oh i see some posts have been removed, inkslingers post isnt on here anymore, has it been deleted........mmmmm

Him buy the dragonfly copy from china, and modified.... This is the bad thing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluerocker

oh i see some posts have been removed, inkslingers post isnt on here anymore, has it been deleted........mmmmm

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Noticed this as well.
Why is it that a lot of replies and posts in general have a bad vibe. I really like this forum, but people need to stop getting so butt hurt about everything.

A lot of people especially the builders ( we are lucky to have so many builders here ) take a lot of offense to people copying other people's machines. So when people post about knock offs, it sparks some strong feelings. If something is deleted then someone must have gone to far and the post was removed or the poster removed it themselves. There are a few threads just about this builder / copier. As well as ones on the dragonfly copies.

I understand that about this thread, but I meant in general. In this particular thread, its pretty fucked up that this dude is getting shitty knock offs and re making them himself. A lot of people were talking about the swazis being bad. (Something I do not agree with) But deleting post for any reason is pretty bad.

Sometimes things escalate and maybe it got ugly and we didn't see it. I know fights do happen. Everybody has an opinion good or bad. If things get too bad I think a cluster of posts get deleted to keep it from getting worse. Anyways do we really need another 12 page thread on knock off dragonfly machines?

Let me clear something up here...no one deleted my post(s). I decided that I'd remove them to take myself out of this conversation because I didn't see the need to continue discussing a topic that was turning negative. As someone already said, feelings tend to run strong on this subject. The topic being "that there is no harm in copying another builders work". On that note I'll be even more clear. There's been some questioning (although I don't have a clue why) if Paulo Cruse copied the Dragonfly and put his name on it. In the man's defense, he actually didn't "copy" the Dragonfly, the rotary that he now sells is a "one off" of the Firefly (which of course was copied). The Firefly can be bought cheap if ordered in bulk, even cheaper if ordered without the motor...and I assume even cheaper if ordered stripped. At the end of the day, the machine is a copy. Now for those of you that don't see the harm in a builder, any builder copying the work of another, "arguing" it with you is mostly likely an act of futility. I've made my feelings very clear on this forum about where I stand on those that do this. To the point where how I expressed myself on this and the issue of scratchers had me close to getting kicked off. Not going there again. Not for the fear of being removed, but like I said...if someone doesn't get it by now, they never will.

To sum it up like mike-Inkslingers said alot of builders etc are doing exact copys of machines, coil makers included.Which is pretty fucked up for the original guy that invested his time and money in to it.I had done a long post on this about the bishop and its clip/slider etc over a year ago on here.I do think when you use someones idea you should have to pay them a percent if you are making money off it(common practice in the music industry if you sample etc.

No comments.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nasse_1895.jpg

It's unfortunate when someone copies something so blatantly. I'll admit, I've made some "OMG, have you seen this?" posts of my own. Sometimes, something upsets me, and I like some feedback from people I feel will understand (you guys). I don't like when I see threads go awry, though. I don't like seeing insults being hurled, accusations being made - you know the deal.

I agree with with those that find it unfortunate when someone takes another person's hard work and design, duplicates it, and takes credit for it being the 'one and only'. Sure, we've all seen machines made by guys who use a Walker frame, or a Bulldog or anything else for that matter. Nobody gets all up in their shit for not designing their own frames. There may be an argument there, maybe not. It's nice to know that there are people who can recognize the original, and don't support the copycats. I'm not completely innocent of this myself. My introduction to rotaries was a Stealth. I won an ebay bid that included 4 or 5 of them among a bunch of other stuff (some random frames and spare parts). I knew it was a copy of a Swiss machine, but I had never used a rotary before, didn't know anyone else who used them, and didn't want to throw a bunch of money at something I would be experimenting with. I passed them out to my friends, we played around with them, and decided that rotaries were interesting, and bought some "real" ones. Of course, my interest in them got a little obsessive, so I got some help and made a forum so I could talk to other people who were "pro-rotary".

I think at this point of the thread, we're beating a dead horse, so to say, about this dude and his machine. I can totally understand why Inkslingers decided to remove some posts he made. People do that occasionally. I wish they didn't at times, because it can make a thread confusing, but if someone made a post, and later decided that what they wrote wasn't really what they wanted to say because perhaps, their anger got a hold of their fingers and "things were typed", it's their prerogative.

That being said, I think we're done here. Let's not make any more posts about this dude, ok? I don't want to have to delete future threads that complain about him specifically, and I myself my try to curb my own posts about "complainy things". Nothing wrong with rants, but maybe we all can rant about other things, like ridiculous clients who think we owe them the world because our tattoo machines are actually magic wands and we are all a bunch of lying bitches and bastards who won't let them into the secret magical circle, and less about machine rip-off artists and "ink masters" who do work stolen (badly) from other artists and claim it as their own. I say we leave that stuff for facebook.

So, who's done some rad paintings or drawing in their spare time?! I love to see that stuff!!

<3