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has anyone used the rotar shift 2? if so please tell me about it. do u like it? whats it best used for? whats the volts on the eikon?
please any input would be great... i have aquired this really kool looking machines from slicksteel, 1 hell of a huy to deal with, he hooked it up on a few trades and i cant wait to give it a try...
I'm not sure they've been released yet. Did u check their site?
they were just put out, slicksteel orderd it and had to wait forever and he traded it with me, so ill have it when i open tomarrow. whats the link to there website?
I have used both of mine for at least four hours for the past two days. I packed color on a hand yesterday with ease. Right off the bat it was comfortable to use and quick to adapt to. The only issue's I noticed were 1.Tube vice is a little tuff to get snug while keeping the needle from twisting in the tube. 2. Does seem a little fragile 3. Smaller rubberbands are a must. And last, if you use rubber grommets, be careful when removing from machine. The armature came off one of mine today. Went back on easily though. I used them for some B&G today, tattooed like a charm. I also was able to observe the fact that lining with a Rotar would be a breeze. Color, I ran below 7.5 on my CX-2 15 mag. B&G today was at 6.5-7.0 11 & 15 mags. Also, it does seem like there is some 'give' there...... It is very light, and pretty quiet. I'm sure you will enjoy working with it.- Mike
ty so much 4 the input i was just reafing on another post and kinda had me bugged out, but it seems like im gonna enjoy my new toy. :)
Spot on review, I've only used mine for color and black shading so far but am dying to try some lining with it soon...Quote:
Originally Posted by RedEyedDemon707
hey fucker..i think those use a swash plate like the swash drive do and if they run like one it should be a great liner and color packer.. make sure you post a review on here.. the builder is on the site as well
ok i did a trad rose with the rotar today.... hmmm well the skrew fell out with the spring, keep in mind this thing was brand NEW... the vise for the tube is loose but its kool bcause the machine is sooo light it doesnt matter..... the machine made ink splatter more then i have ever seen in my life, i ran it about 6.50 volts , trid up and down... it did blend the color well yet i had to fight with this lil thing and as far as lines? well it wasnt too bad, it was solid yet i had to fight with it, and no im not a bumb when it comes to tattooing... so over all as of now i think the machine blows ass, yet it is trail and error and i will be fooling with it some more, but deff not my favorite right now, i personally think that when someone builds a machine esp and expensive one i think it should be tested and tried rather then take customers money when THE FUCKING thing aint ready... hopefully i will change my mind after using it more, if not... well im gonna end this right now...
if anyone has ny input about this machine please let me know anything will help...
I haven't had any splatter with mine yet. The set screws need loctite and the vise threads need greasing. That'll help with the two problems. It takes a bit of adjusting the two spring preload screws to get the right feel. I definately agree on the fact that it should have those bugs worked out and the thing manufactured and tested before selling it, sucked to have paid and them have to wait so long when I was lead to believe that it was in a drawer ready to be sold. That said I really do like mine a lot, though I've only done shading with it so far...
dont know if im diggin it
These machines dont agree with me. If anyone is interested in giving them a shot, I might have two to put up for sale or trade.
I could trade you a nice old paolini coil color packer I have for 1. It's pretty sweet, I did a lot of customizing to it. It has done some great color work for me in the past, haven't touched it since I went rotarded with swashdrives a few years ago.
I can't deny the feel and ability of a tuned coil, but I love the lite weight machines, especially since I use lighter disposables and I need that balance. Plus I've got girlie wrists. I sold a bunch of my coils over the last few years but that paolini has stayed with me for about 11 years now and is almost my last coily.
I live coil free these days, but thanks!
It's interesting to me how varied opinions on this machine are. They are at either end of the spectrum and nothing in between.
For me this machine doesn't do it.
I find the idea of the Shift fantastic. It is light, reasonably quiet, insanely small, and hits harder than i imagined it would (or could). It looks slick, like a well thought out well designed machine. And parts of it are. But not all of it.
The rubber band holder is low profile and works well (though it can be a slightly awkward affair at first to put a rubber band on) but they are too sharp, and can easily puncture gloves. While they can be filed, I feel I should not have to file anything on a brand new machine (particularly one that cost about $400). A needle tensioner might be a better idea.
The tube vise seems like a good idea, but is clumsy and allows the tube to spin while it is tightened. The previous design was better in theory but wouldnt hold a tube tight. A guillotine vise seems like the best solution.
The power adapter is small and low profile, but not a standard attachment. Adding an adapter works, but then whats the point of the small low profile plug?
I think this could be a great machine, but I think Nin needs to stick with one design and perfect each part of it, rather than changing so many parts for each new generation of machine. Test them. Then test them more. Figure out what works well, stick with it and improve upon it.
Using the machine:
The balance is great, it has to be, there is almost nothing there! I would imagine if you were to use it with metal tubes you would feel like there was nothing on the end of it.
It's reasonably quiet. Not as quiet as a Swiss for example but quieter than a dragonfly that is set with a lot of give. It does have a fair amount of vibration, in reality it probably isnt that much, but with such a light machine I think you can feel it more.
Lining is alright. Mine sprayed ink like an airbrush no matter the speed or needle depth i used. Aside from that, my lines were clean and crisp (i used long taper 5's and 7rs), but be prepared to apply some pressure. This took a few minutes to get used to. The stroke is just a little too short for what I like (though I have seen it advertised as 3.5mm it seemed shorter). Lining and grey wash is what I wanted this machine for. It can pack color. But I have machines I would prefer to use for this task.
It cleans up easy and fast, but the sharp points will catch and maybe tear whatever you clean it with.
I let my boss take one for a few days... I'm interested to see what he thinks of it. He saw them at the Berlin convention and was really excited about them when he came back. I told him I already bought 2 but was waiting for them to ship.
I guess these are like any other machine. Either you like them or you don't.
Weird, was I the only one that received a cord with mine? It came with a matching anodized 1/8" phono plug so I wouldn't need a heavy adapter. I ended up replacing the stiff cable though for Eikon soft cable.
The rubber band holder is a trick to do as is the vise, but in the end minor annoyances. Hopefully Nins next version will be kink free. Needle runners might be a good setup for these. Hey Hammer, have you the sideways play on the armatures on yours? That's my biggest gripe really. The whole point of a slider is to create linear travel and both the design of using a round piston and it being too small in diameter keep it from attaining that, at least at the nipple end.
the one i had came with a cord to.
I haven't seen any sideways play, no.
Mine came with cables too, but they are huge (but nice looking) and defeat the purpose of such a small machine. And if I am using several machines, including the shift, I would have to switch cables, and who wants an extra cable laying around while you're working.
The adapter isnt heavy, it just shouldn't have to be that way I feel.
what i dont care for is the rubber bands go around and have to lay around the bearing casing... why is that? doesnt make sence to me, i used it again today and yes it does what it needs to do but i just dont like it, not for me... im gonna want to trade this, please no coils for i dont touch them. also i do want a good brand rotary for the shift, please no junk... yes this is brand new, i have put 2 hours on it just to see if i would like it... I AM NOT HAPPY with what they did...
Okay I just finished a tribal halfsleeve, I figured it was a good chance to try the Rotar at lining. And it kinda sucked for it. Used a medium 5rl. Yes it has a pretty punchy hit and the lines flew in easy on one pass but lord it spit a lot and pulled ink up the tube soaking my machine in black. Had to dip every 3" of line. Luckily I bag and seal my machines so I just let it go til I finished. It also just sounds angry at liner speed with a lot of vibration that made it harder to keep steady lines. I'm definately much happier with it at lower rpms. Just spent 1/2 hour cleaning the thing lol.
damn im glad u feel my pain sage with the splatter...
I wonder if needle runners would make it work better with less splatter.
Hi all, im sorry for the silence, and im happy i have sent the machines already and you now have positive and negative feedbacks in which i really need that for future development. about the splatter, please try not to push the needle grommet lean on the end of the needle pin. We will extend that 1mm more so that when you push back the grommet, the needle bar will stay on the middle and will prevent from any splatter. also we still have to develop more on the machine connection, change it into RCA. and the vise lock needs to be changed design for a better grip on fingers, it will be a simple wingnut design so that the fingers will have a better grip on the lock and no more twisting of the tubes. on our next run, we will file the sharp object that is intended to be a hook for the rubberband. and we have just found a way on how to have it with a complete give. we are now testing our experiment and it works like a dream... please send me more input for the future change as we will have our next batch of run very soon. i appreciate all your support and feedbacks, it will help our product arrive to the best it can. thank you. :)
As far as the rubber bands go:
It works well if you dont put them over the whole machine, but rather loop one side on one of the pointy parts by the swash plate, then pull the rubber band across the front of the mahine and loop it over the point on the other side. Kind of hard to explain, but basically they just go across the front of the machine and you end up with a doubled up rubber band. if needed I can upload a pic.
Nin I think you should make the next one with more metal ,you have shaved to much off in your quest to make it light & look cool A good weight to help push the needles, absorb vibrations and make it less fragile would be 3 to 4oz .This would also make for a machine that is easy to wipe down without all the holes etc gone as the laws are going that way,which makes it more sanitary .Also it would cut down on the machining cost down which will make it more feasible for you and future customers as for the money saved you could put a better motor in for the same price.
But you must make small batches first and test these out with friends etc. for free before selling to the public! Paying customers are not here to be used as paying guinea pig testers!
It is a cool idea you have going but needs alot of time to get it were it should be if it is to be sold.I hope all works out for you.
Hey Nin glad your back around and here to defend yourself against the critism from everyone including me jajaja. Slick and Hammers are right, there are a few small but important improvements that would make this machine perfect: a bit thicker supports, rca plugs, flat sides without the all the holes and oval cut-outs(though they do look cool), a higher quality ball bearing motor, smooth edges and no sharp points, a guillotine vise or reverse the current chuck so that tube doesn't spin. I'd also like to see a better slider(maybe larger diameter) that fits tighter to eliminate twist and sideways slop. Setscrews that have knobs on them so that the spring adjustment can be made with I tools on the fly.
Oops not "I" tools, I meant "No" tools
Stupid spellcheck
yeah, i really think so. thanks a lot. ok, i am considering all that to match with what we maintain as our style. regarding machine built, it may look as fragile but it is not really since we use 7075 aluminum and we guarantee strength with our machine frame stand as also they are short. i think i have to go back with the old chuck style in a different lock grip design, that will solve the problem of twisting and lock grip on finger problem. also for all not to use extra layer of cord, we can settle to an RCA exclusively and file the rubberband stay sharp point. i really think removing the holes are really cool as they would be sanitary since after few test of the machine, we really found out that the machine has to be covered. about the motor, we use high quality mabuchi 10v motor with precious metal brush and i believe it works a lot better. on the fly, well that i need to still think of since i really intend to design a setup on machine adjustment before the tattoo and not during the tattoo session, but i may consider that. thanks a lot and it really helps so much. :)
I'm sure it's plenty strong, 7075 is great stuff, just saying that a bit more metal would eliminate vibrations for steadier linework. I know it's a balance between that and liteweight for ease and longevity of use/reduction of fatigue. Perhaps a liner version that's an ounce heavier at the vise? If nothing else a bit thicker supports would ease a few minds about the strength, sway a few of those that might be on the fence about buying one because it's "too lite and spindly looking".
What about the slider bar? On mine there is almost a 1mm difference in diameter, I can see it by removing the Setscrews and springs looking down with a lamp on the other side. That allows a lot of sideways play.
thanks sage. yes we will check all of these considerations before we proceed on the next run. i can thicken that or add an extra weight anywhere i see it has to. or i can add a vibrational matrix anywhere for the vibrations to pass through for better vibration absorption. slider piston or the needle pin to have almost zero tolerance on its guide will eliminate the sideplay. all of these are very much helpful...
I think the weight of the machine and the amount of material in the frame (or lack of) is fine. The idea is to have a super light machine. I dont mind the vibration, and I would rather have a super light machine and feel the vibration a bit than bulk up the machine to try to apsorb the vibrations. My comments about the vibration were just an observation, not really a complaint.
I have no problem with the motor either. It is plenty strong and mubachi is fine.
For me it is really the tube vise (which works, but could be better), and overall performance. I have not given up on this machine and intend to give it a bit more time and see if we can get along.
Glad to see Nin is back around to answer questions etc.
I'll look forward to getting one of the next version, they're good machines with great potential. I think that perhaps much of the sound and vibration I felt while lining was due to the slider's large gap. I'll try to make a new slider myself and see if that helps.
alright i will look for that. thanks throw and sage and slick. im now inspired more.
Wow. I just did a 6 hour black n grey angel halfsleeve, used the Rotar for the first time as a grey shader(7mag textured needles in a curved and angled configuration)and I am so blown away by how smooth and incredible it worked. No issues or inconsistencies the whole time. Completely effortless. I used silverback 11 and grey washes 1-4. The gradients are so smooth they look as clean as if I used a bugpin mag with the best b&g coil machine I've ever owned on my best day. Wish I could post a pic, but I'm iPhone only right now...rrrg.
So it really rocks for color, seriously rocks for BnG, and Im sure it'll line nicely if I can just work out the correct setup. Thanks Nin!
This sounds like a machine that when it reaches it's full potential will be worth having in everyone's rotary arsenal. However ,when I am totally assured that all glitches have been ironed out, only then will I purchase one, and I hope that is sooner than later.
agreed peter