Its because the thunder and neo dont have slap or feel like the whip does the whip has inertia behind the hit to pop it thru the bouncyness of the skin the thunder and neo the skin will be moving with your needle more not puncturing in unless you give it that first pop that coils do themselves. i too am in the same boat i have gotten used to doing everything with a no give rotary but then you have to ask yourself why are you forcing yourself.to make.one machine work when you could use a variety each that are best at there own specific job. Me sticking to no give rotary was becausd of the conviences of carts and no tuning but the convience u get from that you lose in other aspects like ease of use or witch machine will give you the best artistic effect