Elbo-very interesting, you make some very valid points. It's just a feeling with me, but I think Stigma are going to get pushed out of the way. I have a Hyper V2 and believe me,I've enjoyed the machine, but now I tend to pick up all my other Rotaries because they can do the jobs the Hyper does aswell if not better (my short stroke Dragonfly is the best B&G machine I have ever used). My Stigmas will be going to the Bay when I get off my ass to do it, at least you get your money back on them if not more.