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Thread: Motor direction

  1. #11
    Knows Whats Up! OwlsDen's Avatar
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    And this is what I thought, but I picked up a drill and started questioning the logic. It got worse from there but we can keep it simple.

  2. #12
    Machine Builder I build Tattoo Machines
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    It doesn't matter what direction the motor spins as long as it goes always the same direction for brush motors. For right handed tattooers using classic direct drive machine, it's slightly better when it goes anti-clockwise because of the strike angle: when you hold the machine in your right hand the needle strikes from your right side.

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  4. #13
    Senior Member Jim's Avatar
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    The way to know for certain is get a digital volt meter, set to to Ohms, if your clip cord isn't marked touch one lead to one of the clips, then touch the other lead to the other clip, if the number is positive...take note of what color lead was touching which end. That's your red positive clip lead mark it. Do the same thing with all your machines. If you get a negative number...then the opposite lead/post is positive. On a linear machine I don't think strike rotation makes any difference, but on swashes and old style non-linear machines it makes a large difference with hand motion vs rotation. Most machines I've tested red lead was at the bottom machine post...so when in doubt use that as a rule of thumb, as a side note on all my swashes, the opposite is true; the top machine clip post is positive.

    The thing that matters most in motor life is consistency, always run them in the same polarity...red to red, or if you like it reversed keep it reversed, unintentional flip flopping it with unmarked polarity, is what makes the motor go south sooner.

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  6. #14
    Senior Member Ta2GeezerUK's Avatar
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    So what is clockwise? while working with the machine facing away from you or clockwise having it facing you?? Motor Direction.jpg
    Its the voices!... They made me do it!

  7. #15
    Knows Whats Up! OwlsDen's Avatar
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    Nice illustration.

  8. #16
    Senior Member Jim's Avatar
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    Maybe this is an easier way to think of rotation...if you were to place clock hands on the motor shaft which way would the clock run? (Also note you do not tell time by standing behind a clock) Although, I understand when one tattoo's they are sort of behind the rotation, so I see where the logic and confusion comes from.

    In the early 90's I remember the rotary vs. hand motion vs. polarity discussion, So I wasn't surprised to see it again. The discussion grew out of, if your hand is moving counter clockwise and and your machine is moving clockwise, then your hit is weak on one side of the machine...thus producing problems with color saturation sort of like needle holidays...Instead of your brain going on vacation creating holidays, your needle was.

    It's a very logical argument and a well thought out one, with some scientific truth to it, but not the total story. I honestly think it's both rotation of the machine and technique. If you think about the basic circular motion in the tattoo process where's the weakness? Why does it take time to learn something as simple as circles? I sincerely hope no scratchers have access to what I am about to say. Grab a piece of paper and write a zero or an O or grab a piece of paper you've written one on, and then consider the following.

    The process of learning the circle isn't learning it's unlearning. All of our lives up to the point of tattooing, we've written circles in the form of Zero's and O's in names and numbers. This is something we've learned to do fast and without thinking. What happens from this? Look at your zero or O...the first side of one of these zero's or O's is dark and heavy on one side, then it gets lighter in a flourish towards the other side to go onto the next letter or number. That's exactly what we as tattoo artists have to unlearn, to properly pack that ink under the skin with a circular motion first pass, and why it's not so easy to do at first...the circle has to be solid on both sides.

    The rotary makes this weakness more apparent if the strike runs with our circle and not against it. If it runs with our circular motion, it helps the unintentional light side flourish, that combined with a lot of little circles to do for a large solid fill, combined with the mind checking out for a little while because it's a boring part of the tattoo...one can see where all the issues and debate come from. That's why both can be at fault, rotation and technique.

    I honestly had a hard time at first with rotaries that ran in sync with my hand movement. I think that's exactly what happens when people try them, dislike them and then go back to coils. The Swiss was the first rotary I liked a lot for everything, I know it was just because it took the rotary motion and made it linear. It didn't magnify the weakness my circular motion had in it like some others did. I think that's why the newer rotaries have so much success, because they change the motion to linear.

    I found later by sheer accident, that a simple tilt just one or two degrees at the top of my machine away from me, combated the weakness that non-linear machines had that ran with my motion, that really opened the proverbial rotary oyster, and some old machines came out of the drawer.

    I'm glad I didn't have to go back to old apprentice training and strap a pencil in a 1lb machine and color some sheets of paper solid black using nothing but little circles...anyone that has done that knows it sucks so much ass, but great for unlearning that circular weakness. If any of you have apprentices that's some nice busy work...wink wink.

  9. #17
    Senior Member Ta2GeezerUK's Avatar
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    I get ya on that Jim and I understand the swing of a standard rotary will have a weak spot/Area On hitting the skin if the method of applying the ink isnt corrected etc, I am a Southpaw/Left hander, and I dont know if anyone else does this but I build/write my Circles / O's Anti-clockwise,

    So if the machine was facing me with needle bar in view then my colouring/Saturation follows the same as that spindle going clockwise. Never really had any problems with colouring as such but just wondered if a motion going anti clockwise with the hand would be beneficial to a clockwise motion motor pre linear machines obviousley.
    Its the voices!... They made me do it!

  10. #18
    Senior Member Jim's Avatar
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    Geezer, the same thing can be accomplished by flipping your clip cord on the machine, so there's really no need to change hand motion in the opposite direction to get the preferred strike. If your machine is running clockwise flipping the clip will make it run counter clockwise, which will be the same as if you reversed hand motion...thinking on these things too long, can start to feel like your brain is doing inter-dimensional travel. So if you come back with a beard, or end up in a place where everyone has beards...please note: I will not held liable for any damage done by your evil twin and or parallel dimensional rifts

  11. #19
    Senior Member Ta2GeezerUK's Avatar
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    Hahaha!.... On my way back from that dimension as we speak! ..Where's my bic? It does hurt the brain some I agree, But now then now then now then as The late great Jimmy would say, If I flip my clip cord and it sends the motor in the opposite direction to create a helping hand with applying the momentum then does that Mean I'm gonna go through a motor or 2 more than the next guy thats right handed?? .......Jim!... Where ya gone? .... hahaha!
    Its the voices!... They made me do it!

  12. #20
    Senior Member Jim's Avatar
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    Sorry, I was around just taking care of this green lady and beaming down some red shirts. I'd say if you're not having issues with rotary strike and what you're trying to accomplish, then don't think twice about it. If one day your machine is running sweet, and the next time you hook it up and you can't get that same saturation, barring damaged or clogged needles...polarity mixed with the technique weakness posted earlier might be to the cause.

    One builder earlier mentioned brushes and brush-less motors. Brushes really only like to spin in one direction because they will get uneven wear on the brushes, one edge will be low towards the main spinning direction and the other side of the brush will wear high and sharp, when you reverse the spin of a worn brush, the high sharp brush edge will catch on the contact surface of the motor. Much like a chisels bevel does on a piece of wood. What that does is make the motor work harder, to overcome the worn sharp edge of the brush when it spins, it also makes it run slightly out of it's harmonic balance.

    Brush-less motors do not have this problem, however they do have a magnetic North-South running preference, running them against this polarity doesn't make too much difference in motor life my guess 15% less, unless it's bridged with a diode. A diode is supposed to only allow electricity flow in one direction. Unintentional flip flopping not knowing any polarity, machine and or clip-cord the motor will die a lot sooner.

    Running the motor in the same direction is key for both motors and it's life. However, if running opposite the polarity makes for an improvement in your work, then always run it reverse (unless of course the machine is bridged with a diode) contact the maker to know for sure, or find a digital multi-meter and test it yourself. Never ever keep flip flopping any machine not knowing any polarity unless you want to kill it. Coils run in a looped circuit, where polarity matters as well, if your coils heat up very fast or you keep popping capacitors you need to check your polarity.

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