bishop rotary

[flatline]

Whats the quality of the motor in the bishop? I've heard some negative results from a couple of artist's at the last convention. Are they not maxon motor?

[OwlsDen]

Not maxon from what I understand they are the same as the Neo Tat uses I believe Mabuchi ( spelling ) Japanese Motor. I could be wrong but if you search the forum you will find the answer.

[flatline]

I did a quick search. Kind of a bummer. I really wanted to get one or a neo tat. I can't bring myself to spend that much on something like that.

[OwlsDen]

I wouldn't knock it, maxon isn't the only good manufacture out there. Also if you need a replacement a lot of the maxon motors are hella expensive, and that is based on the price in euro. I can guess at how Insane it would be in dollars. The motors in the Neo Tat and I believe the Bishop are only about 15-30$ you can afford to have a few back ups. Not to mention that both of those companies are renowned for Great! Customer support.

[Administrator]

Bishop currently uses Maubuchi ( rumured they are switching to maxon), depending on the drive system some motors are better then others. Maubuchi is used by almost half the popular rotary builders on the market and they are virtually indestructible. The other common motors are maxon and fualber, the big difference is the weight of the motor. Faulber makes the lightest most expensive motor but its very particular about the drive system it uses. maxon makes light motors as well but they can in some cases not perform as well if the drive system does not work well with it. The mariachi is kind of like a tank, ugly and heavy but its a real workhorse.

I know many of the builders on here personally and know a lot about the machines they make and can tell you that many of them have spent hundreds if not thousands buying motors to test them with the unique drive system they each use. Beyond the brand name its also a matter of testing the hell out of multiple models of motors from the same manufacturer to make sure you have something that will perform the way you want and not die after 1000 hours. The other issue is many artists will simply complain about a machine and blame the motor, this is like blaming the coils on a relay machine when there are a dozen other things that could be the issue including the artist them self's.

[OwlsDen]

That is the best explanation you will get anywhere. Don't rate a machine on one part no matter how critical that part might be. Go with a machine that feels right, not which one uses the most expensive motor.

[flatline]

I see your points. They have some truth. Even though a bit bias. i know that costs have to be covered, however, these machines are being sold worldwide. High production levels at a cost of 350 plus. I think its an insult to the market to design a build over availability. Just cause everyone does it, doesn't make it right. Shouldn't their be some worth to the machine that separates it from a knock off? Besides a few parts which can be easily upgraded? I'm all about paying a man for his hard work and investments. At some point their should be a balance of its worth. Their may be artist's out their that abuse machines and complain unreasonably. I've just heard some complaints from some pretty reputable people that had me questioning the purchase of one myself. Had another machine builder that bought one and disected it to learn that their was in fact a cheap motor at the helm. I had my doubts on believing it at first, so that's why I've been looking into it before making a decision. I spend a good anount of money all the time so I can offer the best product I can. I'm not gonna charge somebody 200 for a 150 dollar tattoo, and then dilute my inks.

[OwlsDen]

I think you will find testimony that the decision was not monetary but the choice in the cheaper motor was for worked better and more reliably with the system in the machine. I understand where you are coming from, but in the case of the Neo Tat original it sells for 250$ a price I think is a bargain. The bishop is 290€ I don't know the price in dollars so I can't compare that. Also unless you know all of Maxon's motor systems don't be too quick to believe they are the best. Maxon makes cheap motors too I think they start around 20€. Graupner is a German company makes nice motors and they range from 6€-400€ it isn't all in a name. The only Maxon motor replacement I know is the Swiss machine has it listed on their site for 125€ but I imagine it is more like 90€ direct from maxon. I know I have bought coil machines for over 300$ because of a name I trusted, and this can be strange going to rotaries as the names are all newer and use motors that they don't produce. Don't use this as a vehicle to discount the hard work that they put in to the design, testing and production of these rotaries. It most likely costs a lot more to make these machines than coil machines. I think we are lucky that there are companies with reasonable prices. Besides you have a whole group of people her eager to try new things and most anyone here will buy what you don't like. Either to try something new or to have two of the same machine for easier setup and workflow.

[Alie K]

I see your points. They have some truth. Even though a bit bias. i know that costs have to be covered, however, these machines are being sold worldwide. High production levels at a cost of 350 plus. I think its an insult to the market to design a build over availability. Just cause everyone does it, doesn't make it right. Shouldn't their be some worth to the machine that separates it from a knock off? Besides a few parts which can be easily upgraded? I'm all about paying a man for his hard work and investments. At some point their should be a balance of its worth. Their may be artist's out their that abuse machines and complain unreasonably. I've just heard some complaints from some pretty reputable people that had me questioning the purchase of one myself. Had another machine builder that bought one and disected it to learn that their was in fact a cheap motor at the helm. I had my doubts on believing it at first, so that's why I've been looking into it before making a decision. I spend a good anount of money all the time so I can offer the best product I can. I'm not gonna charge somebody 200 for a 150 dollar tattoo, and then dilute my inks.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what exactly you are asking in this thread. I'm also not sure why you think some of the members who answered your previous postings have biased opinions. If anything, the fact that they own the machines in question should help to verify that they are confident in what they say about these machines.

Things that seperate the Original Neotat and Original Bishop from the knockoff versions:

-Made/assembled in America

-Customer service available - Both Franco and Ray are more than happy to either repair or replace machines depending on what is necessary

-Will actually last you for an entire day of hard tattooing without shitting the bed

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but I don't think that a machine in the $280-$350 price range is an exorbitant amount of money to spend on a machine. The $600 machines have had a fair amount of research and development put into them, and though they may be out of some artist's price ranges, they are specialty machines, some of them are even handmade by one person start to finish - brazing, filing, etc. and that comes with a price tag.

There is a big difference between a Kia and a Mercedes for a reason. Both will get you from point a to point b, but if reliability, the little luxuries and attention to details are what you are after, you will choose accordingly.

Off the top of my head, these machines are made with Maxon motors. If having a Maxon motor is your deciding factor for getting a machine, get one of these:
Blitz
Dragonfly
Swash
Stigma
Ben Wight
(any others I missed?)

At the end of the day, you're going to do what you want with your money. I see that you own a Stealth (Swiss knockoff). It runs a generic motor. The only difference in those machines is NOT the motor. I really don't see your point complaining about machines that cost more than Chinese knockoffs, and expecting a name-brand motor to fix its shortcomings.

[flatline]

Fair points. I've leaned a lot more towards Neo because of the price as well. Not to beat a dead horse though, but I think I have read Bishop is going to maxon motors. I think their is a reason for that. Either way, you do make a very valid point though. They are in high demand, and if I feel I need to move them, I feel strongly that I can! Thanks for the feed back. And understanding view.