I've have not got the thunder yet, ordering them this week, still doing research I know am getting the thunder and spirit together, I want the best of both worlds, doing the same with T-tech cartridges and hawk cartridges. I hear some of the T-tech liners work better. Not sure if I am going to sell my ems 400 and get the P2U power source, or just get the jumper cord. So many decision....lol. So stoked to go hawk though!!!