Swiss machine/german evolution type on Ebay.

**Sage Oz** · 04-09-2012, 08:02 PM

I apologize if you feel my opinions cause offense to you my intent is not too argue with you but only to express my opinion as a concerned artist. I joke a lot but I take tattooing seriously and want to evolve as an artist and like to see the rest of the industry that deserves it by proof of the quality and artistry of their work evolve as well. Those that are talented and convicted enough in their efforts will do well. Initial investment in quality supplies is vastly important and necessary because of the medium of human skin. Using cheaper tools to do what we do seems crazy to me now. The coil
machines I learned on in the 90's while current are so antiquated and primative in their design compared to the newest crop of innovations and refinements. These are the tools that are responsible for transforming our intent into existence all day everyday. $400 over a 10year lifespan is pretty cheap per day, less than 1 disposable tube. Making our equipment cheaper only makes it way to easy for people that enter our industry and under-appreciate the value of quality and steal work from deserving artists and make clients permanently less as happy as they could be with lesser tattoos that may not heal as fast or well as they could. If you're too cheap to spend enough for quality equipment then find a cheaper job to do. Tattooing no matter who you are or where you live is damn expensive to do if done to high standards! Plus you can always sell it for close to its cost so invest in a quality machine please if you're gonna do it do it well!!!!!!

**Sage Oz** · 04-09-2012, 08:35 PM

Hey Richie, please keep ads for machine trade/sale in its own post per forum rules so we don't lose our privileges, thanks

**tatu richie** · 04-09-2012, 10:29 PM

well ive not posted it, i just mentioned but i understand.. np

**Sage Oz** · 04-10-2012, 12:05 AM

Thank you bro

**Deakon** · 04-10-2012, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Sage Oz

I apologize if you feel my opinions cause offense to you my intent is not too argue with you but only to express my opinion as a concerned artist. I joke a lot but I take tattooing seriously and want to evolve as an artist and like to see the rest of the industry that deserves it by proof of the quality and artistry of their work evolve as well. Those that are talented and convicted enough in their efforts will do well. Initial investment in quality supplies is vastly important and necessary because of the medium of human skin. Using cheaper tools to do what we do seems crazy to me now. The coil
machines I learned on in the 90's while current are so antiquated and primative in their design compared to the newest crop of innovations and refinements. These are the tools that are responsible for transforming our intent into existence all day everyday. $400 over a 10year lifespan is pretty cheap per day, less than 1 disposable tube. Making our equipment cheaper only makes it way to easy for people that enter our industry and under-appreciate the value of quality and steal work from deserving artists and make clients permanently less as happy as they could be with lesser tattoos that may not heal as fast or well as they could. If you're too cheap to spend enough for quality equipment then find a cheaper job to do. Tattooing no matter who you are or where you live is damn expensive to do if done to high standards! Plus you can always sell it for close to its cost so invest in a quality machine please if you're gonna do it do it well!!!!!!

Woah there! What you are saying is in effect "all machines should be expensive to stop people who dont care enough from tattooing". In every industry there are low end, mid range and top range products, people want choice. We sell a lot of machines to coil users wanting to step into the rotary world who would previously bought a stealth for example.
Just because you might buy a dragonfly doesn't mean you are going to be a better artist or turn into one overnight! Not to mention the fact that you are implying our machines make shoddy tattoos that heal badly. I do hope you have tried a German Evolution pretty extensively before trying to destroying its reputation!

**Sage Oz** · 04-10-2012, 03:50 AM

How is what I am saying being misunderstood? Am i not writing in proper and concise English? I believe that if you reread my posts you will see that I have not said anything negative about the abilities of the German. For the third time now I will say that everything I have heard about the performance of the German is good. I do believe though that all machines and tattoo equiptment in general should be refined and of the highest quality. Our equipment should be built to a very high medical standard and use the best materials and design reasonable. I am not, once again implying that a more expensive machine will make anyone a better artist, however they WILL make your tattoos better, hurt less, heal faster, be more vibrant, your customers happier and application more comfortable confident easy and fun. And yes I do think our machines should cost a fuckload and be accessible to pros only and not done on a budget. The evolution looks like it was designed in the 80's and could use a facelift and better ergonomics and nicer hardware and if it costs 10cents more every time i use it during its life to have those improvements, then that's worth it. A $400 machine used an estimated 3000hours over a 5 year period(2hrs a day X 300days a year) is a whopping 14cents per hour!!!!! Half a beer less a day can pay for a pair of centris. And then you can resell them for $400 apiece after you've made $100,000 or more from them first. Not a bad deal but not cheap enough for some people apparently. We charge $100-200 hour and you guys think that 14 cents of that paid to another tattooist that made an amazing piece of technical art for you to use is just too expensive, that the tattoo marketplace NEEDS a machine that only costs 4 cents an hour to run?!? Please am I asking too much for builders and vendors to give a shit and stop trying to make the fast easy cheap buck?!?

**Deakon** · 04-10-2012, 04:36 AM

A more expensive machine does in no way correlate to how well a tattoo heals and definitely doesn't mean a more vibrant tattoo. That will be down to application. As long as the machine runs nicely it doesn't matter if it costs £100 or £500, I use machines that work well for my particular way of working.
If you feel more comfortable knowing that the machine you bought cost a lot of money, that is entirely up to you.

We are certainly not after making a quick buck, the rotary portal is a small site run by myself and Brendan Mudd in between tattooing 6 days a week. There will be in the very near future some very exciting announcements coming in the way of new stock though and I'm trying hard to keep quiet about it!

**Sage Oz** · 04-10-2012, 04:51 AM

Good to know, evolution is a good but sometimes a painful thing. Nice to know that you guys are on the up and up and open to listen to opinions, even if you might disagree with them. I'm not trying to bad mouth the rotary portal or the makers of the german evos, I just don't understand the rational behind using or building or selling machines that are inexpensively built, the math behind it easily supports the negligible slightly higher cost to run a higher quality made machine.

**alexander** · 04-29-2012, 05:39 AM

I wish to rectify the shoot.
I defended the machine because two people and me have to work with German. the machine is not problem. Except a machine which heats much JD (a friend) and obviously ZERO guaranteed in Box ? the problem is of transmission with the manufacturer. Very difficult to have answer... no attractive and very difficult in the contacts…
because I say has Friends (and JD too!) how German Evolution is GOOD ! and my friends or Friendly JD contact Builder… but Answer zero ! Communication zero ! Guaranteed ZERO…
I include/understand the position of the Sage Oz…. (and I make excuse if my Popos were little hard! but we discussed in the MP )
And I also understand that people want to pay a more expensive machine one personalized contact !
The machine is not the problem.
best wishes.