voltages vs speeds

[jesoner79]

ok so im not sure if this is the right place for this thread but.........i want to talk about machine speeds vs voltages on rotaries of course not realy sure hot these two relate i build coil machines and i know that on a coil if u raise the voltage it makes the machine hit harder not faster to change a coil machines speed u have to use a stiffer front spring since rotaries have no front spring how does this relate i know on a rotary if u increase the voltage it increases the speed but it still hits the same so am i some what in the right ballpark with this theory

[tatu richie]

i think this is gonna be a kick ass thread

[Sage Oz]

That is one looong sentence. Okay, this is my understanding on this subject. On a rotary, raising the voltage raises both the speed and to some degree the power of the hit(force) because: mass X speed = force , so by increasing the speed of the action the force has to increase relatively.
On a coil machine, you can get more force out of the hit with higher volts but at the cost of sparking which creates mis-timing of the strikes and possible heat buildup which burns our fucking hands which is universally sucky. A coil machine requires a specific amount of voltage(depending on it's possible varients of design,parts,geometry,etc.) to complete its action efficiently. Any more voltage than is needed to do so will only cause sparking and heat. Conversely, too little voltage will create missed or stuttered strokes making the machine appear to hit softer and slower.
Rotaries have a much larger range of speed abilities and much higher consistancies throughout that range when compared to coils, which are happiest when at their voltage balance point. On coils we adjust the voltage to find that spot where it's running in tune, timed and efficient, then turn it up a bit when we add a needlbar to compensate for the added weight and resistance of the tube and needle and rubber bands. Then turn it up a bit more to handle the resistance of the skin. With a rotary I adjust the voltage to where I think the rpm's should be and adjust from there depending on it feels...

[aurelien]

Nice thread indeed I wanted to post something similar the other day actually ! So Sage Oz, you're saying that votage = # of cycles ?

[jesoner79]

ok i think im not explaining myself right im just trying to figure out how if ur volts lets say that u have it running at 6.5 volts someone had said that was equal to 65 cps which in my opinion would be too slow and if thats the case that might b y some people have problems lining with a rotary

[jesoner79]

now i dont know about rotaries but i do know coils and i have no problem with line work its just that ive seen so many people asking how to line with a rotary now with a shader(coil) ucould get away with it goin 65 cps but u would have to move so slow to get a solid line

[OwlsDen]

i think the specifics are too broad here to follow a general rule. You can have a motor in one machine that is capable of 14,000rpm at 8 volts and another that is rated at say 8,000. Both would be completely different at any voltage and there would never be a direct voltage to cps. It would better to know the rpm at that voltage. Someone posted a cps to rpm conversion. It might have been Cary from Tattooed Pirate. It was something ( don't quote me on this ) close to 9000rpm was about equal to 150cps. Even then that rpm rating is for an unloaded motor. Once it is in the machine, the rpm drops and now it must overcome friction, weight, and apposing forces like springs. So now 9,000 might only be 8,000 once you factor in the machine, needle and tube, rubber bands, etc. However maybe he took that into account and then it might be a motor with a rating of 9000rpm might have a real world function of about 150cps. Again this is from my dusty memory, i need to find that thread.

[aurelien]

I m not sure about what I m going to say, but I think it depends on the motor. Some are 8000 rpm (revolutions per minute if i remember right) some 7500 etc ... plus there are 6 volts, 12 volts motors etc ... It will depend on the machine, for exemple the Cheyenne Hawk manual does specify the rpm corresponding to the voltage used.

[OwlsDen]

http://www.rotarytattoo.com/showthre...ighlight=motor

it was No Iron Machine, and Ray from Neo tat talking about motor specifics.. maybe halfway down the page

HELLO

ACCETTABLE RPM is between 9000 to 12000 NO LOAD, some people use 14000 or more for DIRECT DRIVE ROTARY, i think is really a lot, becouse suppose the COILS MACHINES run maybe at 90 to 120 HZ with needles and rubber band, LINER or SHADING depend of course, have one procedure to compare RPM of ROTARY to HZ of COILS machines, i don remenber now, need ask to my fahter , is an electronic technic, him know

[jesoner79]

ok so i wont compare the two from this point forward just trying to figure this motor thing out want to build my own so thanks for the help just needed some info