bishop or vivace? or hold out for the beast?

**Sage Oz** · 03-15-2013, 05:28 AM

My vivaces are very quiet even at high speeds, and very little vibration

**hendricksonart.com** · 03-16-2013, 12:48 PM

I noticed the beast had a pretty hefty price tag. My question is when it comes to rotarys with no give and and no needle clip just how different could they be? I know a lot of these linear machines have motors with similar power torque curves?

**fkirons** · 03-16-2013, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by hendricksonart.com

I noticed the beast had a pretty hefty price tag. My question is when it comes to rotarys with no give and and no needle clip just how different could they be? I know a lot of these linear machines have motors with similar power torque curves?

Its not about the give or not give. It's about the quality and cost motor, the overall quality, the mechanism, the time that takes to machine the body and components. the amount of components, the finish, the packaging, what's provided with the machine, the performance.

**hendricksonart.com** · 03-16-2013, 01:10 PM

Just to clarify I am not referring to Chinese machines more like say rotary works to something of this sort. 200-600 dollar range. If there both linear with no give how different could they be. Besides finish and look?

**tattood** · 03-16-2013, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by hendricksonart.com

Just to clarify I am not referring to Chinese machines more like say rotary works to something of this sort. 200-600 dollar range. If there both linear with no give how different could they be. Besides finish and look?

i have to agree in a way with this. i have had neos, bishop, impact, and i always seem to come back to my rotary works. I think some people just like the different looks of certain machines, and some people like the least amount of weight, noise and vibration possible so go for something that fits their likes. I honestly dont see much difference in the performance of the machines i metioned they lay ink really simalirly. only difference is how it fits in my hand. , and personal preference...lol..

* the only difference that is really noticeable performance wise is when i use a longer stroke, 4+ mm, or a short stroke, 2.5.. The RW are 3.5 but seem to pack and line like a machine with a larger stroke...

**CajunDave** · 03-16-2013, 01:49 PM

ive been using a neotat original 3.5 for 2 years exclusively and i really love it. it shades and color blends awesomeand does small line groupings well enough but i been eyeballing something that will pack solid black and color a little faster. been looking at the longer stroke vivace or something fancy like a halo/dragonfly/inkjekta. i really would like a hawk spirit honestly but the needles just seem so god damn expensive . for the shop i work in now i would lose to much money me thinks. ive seen some amazing b&g done with the bishops.

**MickWrath** · 03-16-2013, 02:09 PM

I'm all about performance but have had much better luck with the performance of higher end engines, the cranker aside. I run constant on and have burned out several lower end DC motors from some builders. Never had a problem with any maxon, faulhaber, or portescap. Can't say the same for mabuchi but not all mabuchis are made equal either so I take it with a grain of salt.

**tattood** · 03-16-2013, 02:14 PM

^^ i gotta go with this as you have more experience, but im just thinking along the lines of a no-give rotary, or a non adjustable dd...

**deleted my last post because i thought about it and dont have enough experience with high end rotaries for that strong of a statement**