Cheyenne and their patents

**peezie** · 06-25-2013, 04:03 PM

This topic is a spinoff from a different post and was brought up to continue this conversation. Original topic is here http://www.rotarytattoo.com/showthre...wk-carts/page2

**peezie** · 06-25-2013, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by slicksteel

The only thing that is the same is the top out side area that locks in place-everything else is different. It's kind of like the first company that invented any in this world-should they own all rights of variations for all time to come? True, it is wrong to steal a company's name, total product likeness and sell it as a complete clone. But were would we be with out progress- Any time you see any type of tattoo machine.Ideas were used from other things done before in manufacturing etc. Also most people use t-tech because they work better-they are soldered and grouped more like standard tattoo needle/bars. The hawk ones are more like cosmetic style were they are set in plastic and grouped tight with small pins. The bottom line is a cart paired with a disposable tube is common sense progress. If you have one machine that;s easy to clean paired with one throw away tube and a few needle carts-you min the contamination and lower bio waste. Cheyenne took the idea of putting a object into another and twisting to lock into place-this has been done before in guns and other products-they did not invent that idea. And the idea of putting needles in a group to tattoo with has also been done before. THey way I see it is they only own rights to exact copies-as they paired ideas all ready used and invented to make a different product.

Not for all time to come. In the USA it's 20 years. As for TTECH being better, that is just your opinion and I'm sure many other peoples opinion, but the bottom line is that it is still just an opinion as I know a lot of people will disagree also. And as for the twist lock, I don't doubt that there are other things in this world that twist and lock, but the issue is how the twist and lock is achieved and for what purpose. This twist lock serves a purpose and has a specific function besides locking something into place. It sets needle depth also. If you think the only protection they have is the rights to exact copies then I think you really need to research patents and how they work. This would be true if cheyenne held only a design patent. The patents they hold are utility patents. If TTECH had a different locking mechanism and also were incompatible with cheyenne machines then I wouldnt view it as a knockoff. I'm all for progress. Just don't infringe on patents. When cheyennes 20 years is up, knock yourself out. Until then, change the back part of your catridge and don't make them compatible with their machines. Simple.

**peezie** · 06-25-2013, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by darkness

The cartridge system is not a patent or invention of cheyenne ..this system is used since years in the cosmetic industrie (permanent makeup) and a lot of builder used this cartridge system. The only think is cheyenne is the first that bring this to the tattoo world ... so ttech copy nothing ,cheyenne has only a patent for the membran because this technic is used since years by others.

No one is saying you can't make a cartridge system. I have a machine with a catridge system that is older than 20 years. The whole back part of TTECH's is a complete ripoff of cheyenne and were marketed to cheyenne users since the beginning. They were basically piggy backing off cheyennes success. If they changed the back part of their cartridge and made them incompatible with cheyenne machines then I wouldn't view them as ripoffs. If anyone thinks cheyenne don't deserve to have their patents has every right to dispute it in a court of law. Until then, someone at the USPTO felt they deserved their patents.

**artoftatt2** · 06-25-2013, 04:19 PM

The twist lock is found on many things... I have it on a few cafe bikes for the gas lid... Also a few other vintage things I own.. Their is also a few tubes I have that have removable tips that are the same from the late 80s that are metal.. I don't believe they invented it but they did patent it.. I use both cartridges but I do see the differences between each ..

**slicksteel** · 06-25-2013, 06:57 PM

ditto on that ^^.-I do now about patents and yes I realize that they paid the money and took other peoples ideas to make their product and to lock it up with patents etc. And they have the money to enforce it in a court of law. I dont agree with it as there is tons of people that have invented stuff and just because they dont have a shit load of money to pay someone they don't get any were with it and don't have the ability to sue everyone. We all know of a some companies that did that and it caught up with them. Cheyenne them shelf seen how popular the t-tech grips were and stole that idea. All I see is Cheyenne is a big company that does not even tattoo and just jumped on the wagon as they had the money to do so and combined ideas that were all ready in place such as using a directdrive machine with a rod.That idea was done years ago by alot of uk machines. I would say the only original part of it would be the grip it shelf which was poorly made at first. Infact the depth of the machine at first was very shallow/weak, yet they tried to market it to tattooers as a all in one that was better then any thing out there-it was only after getting enfo from tattooers that there machine was made to work better in all aspects of tattooing.

**artoftatt2** · 06-25-2013, 07:03 PM

Hey slick I agree with ya on this one!

**tattoo4satan** · 06-25-2013, 07:31 PM

so am I reading this correctly they really didn't invent anything, they just had the money to patent it? If that's true whats the point of even arguing it.

**artoftatt2** · 06-25-2013, 07:58 PM

Their isint a point really.. That type of system has been around for a long time... It would be like someone trying to patent how they wrap coils..

**peezie** · 06-25-2013, 08:08 PM

I have to admit, I have no firsthand knowledge about cheyenne or ttech so I have to rely on info that I can verify. I know that cheyenne has been operating years before TTECH which is a fact. TTECH has been around since end of 2010 according to canada.gc.ca website I found. Cheyenne has been operating before 2008 according to forum posts on other websites. Improvements to existing ideas can be patented as long as ideas are not patented already. With that being said, what evidence do you have that they stole these ideas? Just asking as I am curious myself. Not saying your lying or anything. Can you send me links to any pictures of tattoo machines with push rods from the UK or anywhere? Just curious to check out who cheyenne copied from or who you think they copied from. I don't know if anybody at cheyenne tattoos or not so I can't say otherwise, but that has nothing to do with their right to own these patents. In some peoples eyes, yea, I know they wont respect that. If that's the case, then you should be mentioning Ray of neotat and tattooed pirate as well. They make a living and don't tattoo themselves and a bunch of other builders do the same. They make kickass products according to people on here though. Not attacking you Slick so don't take this post the wrong way. Just need you to shed some more light on the subject as I currently view TTECHs as ripoffs and I do hope you can change my view on it. For the record though, I don't own any cheyenne products.