NEW SYMBEOS rotary tattoo system by HM/Eikon

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

SYMBEOS rotary tattoo system by HM/Eikon

I would like to announce the SYMBEOS rotary tattoo system to all of you, as some of you know already, HM has teamed up with Eikon, to be able to bring to the table this project.
IT is not an HM project nor an EIkon project, it is in fact it is an HM/EIkon product... meaning that it is a true fusion of both companies, to get the best of each other in one package....
We have been working hard on this project for a very long time and wanted to keep it to us until it was ready for launch and here it is.....

The SYMBEOS is a rotary tattoo system , which is designed so the artist can actually interchange its components to achieve the machine that suits him or her best for the work they want to perform . It has an infinity of possible set-ups that will fulfill your needs and you can take advantage of the system as you feel the need for it.

the SYMBEOS Deluxe system has 1 machine body and 3 different slides you can choose from ( piston, pivot and cush) ,with each slide you can achieve a different feel and performance to your machine, in addition to the slides, it also has 3 different motor bodies(#4-#5-#6) which are powered by a precision swiss custom made motor , each having a totally different speed and torque set-up that can be used for different tasks.... and of course 3 different excenter stroke lenghts (2.6mm/3,4mm/4mm )...
all the parts are interchangable between each other and by combining them together in different ways you will have the potential to adapt the system to your needs!

the SYMBEOS Flex system has 1 machine body and 2 different slides( piston - cush) ,2 different motor bodies( #4 /#6) and 2 different excenters (3,4mm/4mm stoke)

And there will also be available upgrade kits with all needed to convert your Flex system to a Deluxe system...
As well as extra machine bodies, so you can combine parts and systems to your liking!!!!

ALL the motor bodies come with both rca and clipcord connection,and both the machine body and the motor body are machined from 7075 aluminium here in Spain, also features high quality German bearings and Swiss motors in its parts list.
these machines are manufactured with the same love and care we put in each HM machine... they will be backed up by HM and Eikon for any questions and needs you may have... there will be a "guideline" for different combinations suggested for different tasks, but of course each artist is different and will be able to reach that desired set-up in different ways..

i will personally try to answer any questions threw the forum or threw my personal email.... [email protected] ….. also the team at eikon will be glad to help!


23759

[Justink]

Are you selling them or are we only able to get them from eikon and have you photos video of machines in use ? Deal for forum members :)

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

You can get them threw Eikon or HM, as well as other official distributors pretty soon!!!
i will be posting Photos and videos of the machine as soon as possible… as we will be doing a few conventions together introducing SYMBEOS out there….
we will be sharing a booth in Milan and Brighton the next weekends with Eikon and i will be surely at Sweden meltdown and Paris mondial du tatuage next month as well and as usual the list goes on and on…
thanks again, Roman
as for deals for forum members we were just trying to work out what we can offer… i will be posting that soon as well!

[throwhammers]

Totally weird options to buy. Why does the flex system only come with 2 excenters? Why not be able to choose any motor? Or any give system? Or include all 3 excenters with any kit?

[No Iron Machines]

Awesome, congratulations...

[daza]

Is this also available for lady tattooist as you don't mention them on your announcement as it sounds a bit sexist
juts my two pence worth

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Hello throwhammers
You have 2 different systems to choose from.. The Deluxe and Flex, the Deluxe is the complete system and the one i would strongly recomend personally... You have absolutely all the options and can achieve Any desired set-up...

[Administrator]

Is this also available for lady tattooist as you don't mention them on your announcement as it sounds a bit sexist
juts my two pence worth

I think the him was an issue of grammar and semantics. Though fluent; English is not Roman's native tongue. The post can be edited with a more neutral grammar as I get your point.

EDIT: Never mind, your request was already heard. I suspect in the exitement of getting this announcement some things may have been overlooked in the copy but since fixed.

[Administrator]

It only mentioned HIS only originally. Its fixed, this is a legitimate copy error but not worth continuing a dust up about it.

So I have a question, is it published what each of the motors are for?

[Zapp]

It only mentioned HIS only originally. Its fixed, this is a legitimate copy error but not worth continuing a dust up about it.

So I have a question, is it published what each of the motors are for?

Motor Bodies The Symbeos Deluxe System includes three Swiss-made Maxon Motors in an Aircraft Aluminum body, each motor custom-manufactured for extended life and reduced noise and vibration. Motors are uniquely designed for different performance and tattooing tasks, depending on the other Symbeos components installed. Each motor operates with a different range of speed and torque characteristics - giving you better control.
The three Symbeos Motors included in the Symbeos Deluxe Rotary Tattoo System are:
#4 Motor – 19mm, Fast Speed, Medium Torque


Recommended for lining at 5.5 - 8.0 volts.
Recommended for fast hand Black and Grey shading at 5.5 - 7.0 volts.

#5 Motor – 19mm, set for Medium Speeds and low torque.


Recommended for slow hand B&G shading at 5.5 - 8.0 volts.
Recommended for solid coloring with smaller needle groupings at 6.5 - 8.0 volts.
Recommended for realistic color blending at 6.5 - 7.5 volts.

#6 – 22mm Medium Speed, High Torque


Recommended for solid coloring with larger needle groupings at 6.5 - 8.0 volts.
Recommended for large configuration/slow lining at 7.5 - 9.0 volts.
Recommended for realistic color blending at 6.0 - 6.5 volts.
Recommended for whip shading and dot work at 4.5 - 6.0 volts.

All Motors can be connected to your power supply using RCA or Clipcord connections.

[Zapp]

I can find all informations,but not the weight ????

[daza]

I have had a chat with Roman and all sorted and I apologized for the strong grammer
we work in a business with both male and female artist and it seemed odd not to say s/he as they are trying to sell to all jenders that's all
If I have pissed anyone off hay ho

[andrewc]

I have had a chat with Roman and all sorted and I apologized for the strong grammer
we work in a business with both male and female artist and it seemed odd not to say s/he as they are trying to sell to all jenders that's all
If I have pissed anyone off hay ho
who are you calling a ho? .... its a mistake that can be made that easily

[Administrator]

Can this thread be about a product announcement please!

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[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Ok like admisitrator said it, it was an error due to the fact That my fluid language is spanish not english!
In no way it was my intention to offend anybody or sound sexist.
In fact i appolagize right away if i did so ( unintentionally)
And i corrected the post in a matter of minutes!
So once again excuse my english, i do my best to comunicate in That language...
But lets let SYMBEOS do the talking..... I think it can comunicate in the universal language of quality That we all understand...... Jajsja
thanks again

[Bishopbyname]

................anyway. I'm hoping to get to Brighton on the sunday. I think they'll be a lot of interest in this machine. Roman you have a great reputation as a builder and as having great customer service so i'm sure this machine will be a great success.

[andrewc]

any chance itll be for sale in may at the halifax tattoo convention?

[Zapp]

Roman,what is the exact weight of the machine ???

[Wonderland]

Well Roman looks like you have a hit here. I'm sure it will sell well. I like the fact that it can be configured for what you want to have to do with it. I can see this being a huge advantage to a lot of artists that have a favorite setup for the style of tattoo that they are doing.

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

hello everybody sorry for the late reply today! we are trying to get everything ready for milan…
bishop, thanks for the kind words once again, yes i will be at Brighton convention all weekend , please drop by so i can say hello in person and show you all the ins and outs of the Symbeos… and if you let me buy you a beer…. :-)
andrewc…. yes i believe Eikon will be at Halifax tattoo convention in May and i know they will have the Symbeos available at every show they attend from Febuary on….

zapp… the machine set-up with the 19mm diameter motor (#4 / #5 ) weighs 3.8oz = 108grs.
and the machine set-up with the 22mm diameter motor(#6) weighs 4.3oz = 122grs.

wonderland….. thanks for the nice words and once more i am totally honored that we are once again on the same page… i really believe in this project .And like i said before put my heart and soul into it! As you , I also see this being a very useful tool for artist wanting to set-up the machine for a specific job…. and it has and HUGE range of possibilities…...

thanks again and i hope i didn't miss any questions… Roman

[Zapp]

zapp… the machine set-up with the 19mm diameter motor (#4 / #5 ) weighs 3.8oz = 108grs.
and the machine set-up with the 22mm diameter motor(#6) weighs 4.3oz = 122grs.


Sounds pretty good !!!!

[bluerocker]

congrats on this,,, this is quite a machine!!! for me aswell as the 3 types of system,, the motor options is whats been missing for sometime,,,same machine and fitting but different spec motors,,,genius! so overall this is pretty much every rotary machine available in one box,,,you may well have just conquered the rotary market with this dude,,, tp of the hat at ya :)

[vodu]

Aaaand....this is my next machine.


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[gautam]

unique feature :cool:
cant wait for the video...

[vodu]

No special price for forum members? Wink wink


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[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Im very impressed how you guys are getting the concept right away soo fast!!!
It is automatically drawing a huge smile on my Face!!! Jajaha Thanks everybody!
I an trying to work Out what deal we can offer forum members right Now... Hope to get some news pretty Soon!
Thanks again!!! Roman

[PAWNJOB]

This is definitely a big step in the right direction! I'm really impressed w/ the motor options and the value of the Deluxe package!

I've already seen some weird posts about the Symbeos in a few threads. Anyone complaining about the cost hasn't added it all up and made a comparison to what you'd get for the same money w/ a comparable company. Anyone overwhelmed by too many options should probably just take a pass and not rain on the parade. For you folks I would recommend one of Roman's Direct Drive machines; that is of course if the option to set it to any stroke length you want isn't too much for you ;-)

Nicely done Roman.

[vsprotoss]

It's different but I don't like it when there are too many options like this. It's too much for simple ol' me... but different strokes for different folks.

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Thanks again!!!
And its very easy to keep it simple if you want... Since we had Our goal set at simplifying a very complex idea...

[ATS]

Looks great!! Love the idea and concept behind it.
Looking forward to seeing you and Symbeos in Brighton!

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Im looking foward to introducing Symbeos for the first time in Uk at the brighton show next weekend
And Im exited That tomorrow Will actually be the very first day Symbeos is dispayed at a convention table ever!!!.... Milano Tattoo convention 2014
Hope to see some of you here during the weekend
thanks!!! Roman

[vodu]

damn, I would like to see a review

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Beside having a great time in Milán.. Its nice to see how people understand the concept in a matter of minutes! Ill try and take some pics of artist working with them at the convention .. It is great to walk around and see symbeos in action ..

[crabink]

please do what everyone else fails to do....

Please post some in-depth, very well made videos to showcase the motors and sliders....

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Sorry for the late reply.. We just finished working at the Milán show! Next weekend we have brighton ... But i Will definately try and get a few vídeos as Soon as possible ...
Thanks!!! Roman

[The Limey]

Genious! It might even tempt some coil users that are put off by the vagueness of "a machine that can do it all" as the info you've provided is a lot more specific and if not, their loss :p

[crabink]

So .... the info on the Symbeos is up on the Eikon site in very long detail, (good sign) and after going through their information I think it is finally time to say that tattooing with a rotary has breached it's intended shores.
Just as coils are designed each with a desired hit and purpose, now the rotary has inevitably done the same with the introduction of design specific interchangeable motor and stroke combinations. This is what I knew rotaries would
one day aspire to, but my ignorance of the various motor specific technologies seemed to be the missing piece to the puzzle. I always wondered why one machine was better for back n grey when it had the same stroke as another, or why one would outline far better.
Yes I understand there all made differently, but now we are finally beginning to see some sound science take shape. Finally a motor to stroke specific design system that utilizes a plausible play-tested speed to torque formula catered to the various artist's needs for performance specific types of application. Let the games begin!!!

HM I am curious if you know what speed and torque motor is used in the Halo? It says 21600 inside... its a 12v maxxon micro.

Also am I right to assume that the Symbeos is 12v? and what does the 19mm an 22mm mean?

[ecsd]

216000
RE-max 17 Ø17 mm, Graphite Brushes, 4.5 Watt, with terminals
17 mm
4.5 W
12V

10400 rpm
4.06 mNm



from maxons site crabink

[crabink]

I am wondering how it compares to the 4 5 6 motors on the symbeous ... like speed md torque

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Hello , I would prefer to compare the motors between each other in the symbeos system rather with other builders Machines.
By comparing motors and specs its important to have in mind wich excenter is on the motor to be able to evaluate its performance...
For Example #6 motor at 6 volts with a 4mm stroke , Will equal to 85cps with Plenty of force .
#4 motor at 7 volts with a 3.4mm stroke equals to 145cps medium-hard force
and the #5 motor at 7.5 volts with 2.6mm stroke is 106cps with medium-soft force
each motor has different speeds , torques,etc
All this info Will be up at Eikon's micro site Soon....
Thanks!!!! Roman

[crabink]

I saw all the info on eikondevice.com its what opened my eyes.
I cant seem to do black n grey to good with Halo... you have any idea why this is? Would you consider the Halo a fast motor?

[FocusTattoos]

If you guys offer members a deal I'd like to buy one asap.

[FocusTattoos]

Can't wait to hear members reviews!

[PAWNJOB]

I saw all the info on eikondevice.com its what opened my eyes.
I cant seem to do black n grey to good with Halo... you have any idea why this is? Would you consider the Halo a fast motor?

Crabink, start a new thread or pm me and I'll elaborate, but it's probably just your technique :)

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[vodu]

Still no reviews?


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[Badhabit]

Okay, here's my quick review.. I got the machines, opened the box, immediatly impressed by the quality of the materials used for the machine, and the overall design.. Also the special little tools they made that are included in the box with your machine.. I put setup the machine how I like, it was lightweight, ran quiet and smooth, etc.. There really is no reason to NOT like these machines, due to the fact you truely have countless options on how to set it up to your need, or liking.. There was a few things that I did notice however.. First, the length of the motor, when the machine is setup, it is about a quarter to a half in longer than say a vivace or bishop.. Not that big of deal, but I could feel the difference when tattooing with it.. Next, was the tube vice, the thumbscrew on the vice when I had it tightened down, the thumbscrew was digging into my finger, this may not be an issue for some of you, depending on how you hold your machine.. Also, and I found this a little strange, the little pegs that stick out of the sides for your rubber band, ar too close for your standard eikon rubber band to have any effect on holding your needle bar, but its too much tension when you "double it up", and I found that the halo rubber bands were almost too much tension when used..

Again, I will say, overall, great machine, no reason to not like them.. the only thing, and from what I understand will be changing in the near future, is how you dont have much of a choice on what you get when you buy the machines.. I personally am not a fan of the "rubber cushion" setup, but I am sure there are people out there that love it.. How things are right now, you dont have a choice, you get a rubber cushion, and a piston slide, and then the upgrade feee to get the third option.. so if you want 2 rubber cushions, or 2 pistion slides, etc, for now, your SOL..


I did get rid of mine, for the sole reason that I didnt want to spend anymore money to get what I was looking for in the first place, I would have waited to get the extra parts, but I was in a position where I needed a few new machines, and couldnt go without for much longer.. All the things I listed above, are really very minor, and can be solved with an easy fix, or just some getting used to.. I will also add, that when I put in the classifieds that I was looking to trade these machines, Roman from HM contacted me almost immediatly after to try to resolve any issue.. customer service next to none in my books.. Anyway, Hope this helps..

[vodu]

Cool mate! Thanks


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[Zapp]

Okay, here's my quick review.. I got the machines, opened the box, immediatly impressed by the quality of the materials used for the machine, and the overall design.. Also the special little tools they made that are included in the box with your machine.. I put setup the machine how I like, it was lightweight, ran quiet and smooth, etc.. There really is no reason to NOT like these machines, due to the fact you truely have countless options on how to set it up to your need, or liking.. There was a few things that I did notice however.. First, the length of the motor, when the machine is setup, it is about a quarter to a half in longer than say a vivace or bishop.. Not that big of deal, but I could feel the difference when tattooing with it.. Next, was the tube vice, the thumbscrew on the vice when I had it tightened down, the thumbscrew was digging into my finger, this may not be an issue for some of you, depending on how you hold your machine.. Also, and I found this a little strange, the little pegs that stick out of the sides for your rubber band, ar too close for your standard eikon rubber band to have any effect on holding your needle bar, but its too much tension when you "double it up", and I found that the halo rubber bands were almost too much tension when used..

Again, I will say, overall, great machine, no reason to not like them.. the only thing, and from what I understand will be changing in the near future, is how you dont have much of a choice on what you get when you buy the machines.. I personally am not a fan of the "rubber cushion" setup, but I am sure there are people out there that love it.. How things are right now, you dont have a choice, you get a rubber cushion, and a piston slide, and then the upgrade feee to get the third option.. so if you want 2 rubber cushions, or 2 pistion slides, etc, for now, your SOL..


I did get rid of mine, for the sole reason that I didnt want to spend anymore money to get what I was looking for in the first place, I would have waited to get the extra parts, but I was in a position where I needed a few new machines, and couldnt go without for much longer.. All the things I listed above, are really very minor, and can be solved with an easy fix, or just some getting used to.. I will also add, that when I put in the classifieds that I was looking to trade these machines, Roman from HM contacted me almost immediatly after to try to resolve any issue.. customer service next to none in my books.. Anyway, Hope this helps..

Fuck,2 things where i was in fear but there are more negativ things !
I just saw it on pics but the motor is way to long for me and i tought allready that the thumpsrew is in the way i have this a bit with another hm machine !
I was planing to try one but this makes my dession easyer to not buy one !
Thank you,mate !

[tttat2]

Machine is too short leaving no forward weight so you will get weight balance problem also.

[crabink]

machine weighs like 3 oz.... there is no weight issue.... maybe a slight balance issue.. but nothing compared the average coil a machine

Roman .. any discount for forum members??

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

hello everybody
i am working on trying to get a discount hooked up for forum members….. its just that we had some crazy past couple of weeks launching Symbeos in Europe….
but i know there will be a deal for sure shortly… we are also working on some nice videos as well….
to answer a few questions…
machines weighs 108grs with motor #4 and #5 and 120grs with motor #6
even with the #6 motor option, i believe its on the right scale of weight to not be too light and not too heavy, which i personally find super lightweight machines to be a bit more difficult to work with ( needing usually that bit more of attention and extra work because of the weight issue and having more vibrations to it… ) but that is my personal opinion…
balance … it may look as the motor is a bit longer than other machines ( only rca connections) , but in the overall length we can be talking about 5 to 8 mm aprox… having in mind that we have both clip cord and rca connections( need room for those connectors , wires ,etc inside the cap) and that the clip cord binding posts are what makes it look "longer" its not zoo long… also the motor does NOT go all the way down… like i said there is room for all the connectors there, meaning the motor weight is obviously more balanced toward the machine body. ( this was a very difficult task to get both connectors in there but in my opinion very worth the few extra mm.) the machine is very well balanced and very very little vibrations….
machine body has its nice amount of material and the stroke wheel is a nice and heavy well balanced one with a big bearing that fits inside the machine to add that bit of forward weight to it…
thumbscrew… it has always been an HM thing to have those side thumbscrews and to a vertical crusher or a guillotine tube vice… i know sometimes this gets in peoples way… we have made a nice lower profile thumbscrew for this machine with a lot of leverage power on it due to its width and format ….. however if the thumbscrew sits in tour way towards your hand , it can easily be fixed with an extra washer or just removing 1 washer… that will make your thumbscrew sit in another position that doesn't bother your hand….
of course if i can answer any more questions , please post them here or pm me or even use my personal email… [email protected]
thanks again, roman
videos and forum deals …. shortly…. jajajaja

[ATS]

Guys, I looked at and ran Symbeos at the Brighton Convention..
It was really well balanced to be fair, and whilst running there was (like Roman says) very little vibrations.. It did sound a bit noisier than I expected but not at all bad either. I personally didn't notice any problems with the thumbscrew..
My overall impression fwiw was that Symbeos is a very well made and thought out machine..

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Glad you liked it ATS, i feel bad i wasnt at the booth when you came by but im glad you ran the machine and liked it...
As for noise ,the most quietest slide is definately the pivot and then followed by the Cush and the pistón makes a bit more noise... Its difficult to adapt tolerances as standard soo you can interchange all the parts...
If we were to "specifically" fit one slide to one machine it could be more tight ...
Also depends in the lube( note those Machines That were setup for "testing" went threw two very Busy shows and a lot of people trying them Out! Jajaja)
But over all the machine is not "loud" at all ...
Thanks again!!!
Roman

[artoftatt2]

Any other reviews or videos of this?

[Deakon]

Glad you liked it ATS, i feel bad i wasnt at the booth when you came by but im glad you ran the machine and liked it...
As for noise ,the most quietest slide is definately the pivot and then followed by the Cush and the pistón makes a bit more noise... Its difficult to adapt tolerances as standard soo you can interchange all the parts...
If we were to "specifically" fit one slide to one machine it could be more tight ...
Also depends in the lube( note those Machines That were setup for "testing" went threw two very Busy shows and a lot of people trying them Out! Jajaja)
But over all the machine is not "loud" at all ...
Thanks again!!!
Roman
my boss bought one at brighton and I can confirm it's pretty much silent! A very complete and impressive machine, totally customisable to suit everyone.



I want one.

[artoftatt2]

Me too I'm just waiting on the forum deal

[AltarVinz]

Hi Roman, will it be possible to buy some additionnal body to get let's say a liner a packer and a shader without having 2437492432 ( maybe I emphasised a bit :p ) unused spare parts. What I dislike in rotary is the "onemachinefitsall" and I think it could be a very nice possibilty to have a machine for each task. Best regards Vinz.

[1982geeeeb]

Hi Roman, will it be possible to buy some additionnal body to get let's say a liner a packer and a shader without having 2437492432 ( maybe I emphasised a bit :p ) unused spare parts. What I dislike in rotary is the "onemachinefitsall" and I think it could be a very nice possibilty to have a machine for each task. Best regards Vinz.

Yeh i agree as if you buy 2 or 3 machines your guna end up with a load of motors and sliders just piled up never being used. Should do a 3 body 3 motor and slide deal. For a full on epic rotary set.

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[artoftatt2]

I think the way it's set up you can buy the main package and two bodies and have three machines

[1982geeeeb]

I think the way it's set up you can buy the main package and two bodies and have three machines

My thaughts exactly. Would be a good arsenal of machines

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[crabink]

When you have so many combinations its smart to sell each piece separately so we can choose what we want.
For example I want to buy the #5 motor and machine body and the cushion and piston sliders and all 3 cams.
But I cant.

Would be smart to sell a one motor setup like I described above. I may never need a high torque motor or vice versa.
We appreciate the vast combinations available, but I dont want 6 motors if I am gonna make a liner and soft shader set up. Or 6 cams and 6 sliders.

We the consumers want to buy each part we want. Please make it happen.

And you can charge a little more this way obviously... its a win win

[ATS]

When you have so many combinations its smart to sell each piece separately so we can choose what we want.
For example I want to buy the #5 motor and machine body and the cushion and piston sliders and all 3 cams.
But I cant.

Would be smart to sell a one motor setup like I described above. I may never need a high torque motor or vice versa.
We appreciate the vast combinations available, but I dont want 6 motors if I am gonna make a liner and soft shader set up. Or 6 cams and 6 sliders.

We the consumers want to buy each part we want. Please make it happen.

And you can charge a little more this way obviously... its a win win
I agree with this..

[slicksteel]

you all know once you start breaking sells down like that-we will pay out the ass- it takes alot of time and money to stock every part for sell.they would have to stock complete ones and make a tone of extras that are just sitting around. maybe in the future they can do this but not right now.As it is you can buy the bodies/slide/cam/slide set up or extra bodies to pair up with the original full set. a Halo cost 550 for machine/motor and for 140 more with the eikon you get two more motors,two more cams and two more complete slides. So do the math you are getting this setup dirt cheap. A complete halo setup like this would be 870 plus 35 for the two extra slides-total of 940 that would just leave you with the same running machines instead of actually doing a truly different feel/hit that you could set up for different style/tasks.
So do the math 690 Symbeos vs 940 Halo set! 250 difference! and the are both using swiss machines and highend parts.Also you guys pay 550 for inkjectas and 600-650 for dragonfly which are only one hardwired machine.With that 250 difference you could buy a whole symbeos body (225) and have tow complete machines set up different and a spare motor and slide to swap when you fancy.I think this is a great price and maybe it will get some of these other guys to lower their crazy ass prices a bit and be a bit more reasonable.

[artoftatt2]

you all know once you start breaking sells down like that-we will pay out the ass- it takes alot of time and money to stock every part for sell.they would have to stock complete ones and make a tone of extras that are just sitting around. maybe in the future they can do this but not right now.As it is you can buy the bodies/slide/cam/slide set up or extra bodies to pair up with the original full set. a Halo cost 550 for machine/motor and for 140 more with the eikon you get two more motors,two more cams and two more complete slides. So do the math you are getting this setup dirt cheap. A complete halo setup like this would be 870 plus 35 for the two extra slides-total of 940 that would just leave you with the same running machines instead of actually doing a truly different feel/hit that you could set up for different style/tasks.
So do the math 690 Symbeos vs 940 Halo set! 250 difference! and the are both using swiss machines and highend parts.Also you guys pay 550 for inkjectas and 600-650 for dragonfly which are only one hardwired machine.With that 250 difference you could buy a whole symbeos body (225) and have tow complete machines set up different and a spare motor and slide to swap when you fancy.I think this is a great price and maybe it will get some of these other guys to lower their crazy ass prices a bit and be a bit more reasonable.

I completely agree with you.. This is a great deal as you can really get three fully running machines for under the price of two normal rotaries..

[asa_castle]

Agreed

[AltarVinz]

Is there a way to get them from an european supplier ?

[artoftatt2]

So no forum discount I take it?

[Administrator]

I dont know that Roman has been on here to see the suggestion just yet.

[ion]

it's a gimmick. Most of the people will never need to use more than one motor. All these settings, numbers and values are just snake oil. Being able to choose one motor with a specific setting would be more appropriate and if someone wants 6-10 motors on a machine, that's fine too.
So far, there is no technical advancement, only consumerism.
What's new to this machine?
Nothing is new, you have a "lego" like device that implements the same principles already seen on so many machines before.
The news is that a company with lots of money will make even more money producing machines at an industrial scale.

[Bishopbyname]

I can see where you're coming from ion but some guys don't know what motors, strokes and give systems work for them until they experiment and it's not anymore expensive than other top line machines that only have 1 option.

[peezie]

it's a gimmick. Most of the people will never need to use more than one motor. All these settings, numbers and values are just snake oil. Being able to choose one motor with a specific setting would be more appropriate and if someone wants 6-10 motors on a machine, that's fine too.
So far, there is no technical advancement, only consumerism.
What's new to this machine?
Nothing is new, you have a "lego" like device that implements the same principles already seen on so many machines before.
The news is that a company with lots of money will make even more money producing machines at an industrial scale.
The underlying technical advancement is the fact that you can switch out individual parts to tailor it to your style of tattooing. If you buy a machine, don't like it, you gotta buy another one. What if you were asking yourself "if only I can change XXX on this machine than it may just work for me". What machine on the market gives you that option? At least the ability to get different parts to tailor it to your liking is new. I do agree that there is nothing new mechanically in principle. How do you know people will only need one motor? Have you tried all 3 motors? Weird that your first post to this forum is about bashing this machine. Can't knock it till you try it.

[crabink]

It really sucks that I cant buy the motor, pistons, cams and body I want. Yes its a nice system but I cant drop 700 to get one fully working machine and then drop another 700 to get another and have duplicates of stuff I will hardly if ever use.
I want a body, #5 motor, cushion sliders and th3 cams. I mean ill drop 550 for that, know8ng that I can pick a new set up next time.
I bought the whole system yesturday from an artist across the street and I really got spooked when the machine wouldnt start and after he fiddled with it I still backed out of the deal because I didnt want to get stuck with so much tech, because I new I wanted another body and would get stuck spending 700 more to get another whole set up.
When a pick a part option comes.. ill buy one ...

Dont take this the wrong way... the different speed and torque motor option is what I am looking for, perhaps that luxury only comes qith a 700 price tag.

[ion]

The underlying technical advancement is the fact that you can switch out individual parts to tailor it to your style of tattooing. If you buy a machine, don't like it, you gotta buy another one. What if you were asking yourself "if only I can change XXX on this machine than it may just work for me". What machine on the market gives you that option? At least the ability to get different parts to tailor it to your liking is new. I do agree that there is nothing new mechanically in principle. How do you know people will only need one motor? Have you tried all 3 motors? Weird that your first post to this forum is about bashing this machine. Can't knock it till you try it.

Probably you don't get my point. I'm not bashing anything. It's just my personal opinion about this new aspect of tattoo machine building. Even though it was my first post, I don't feel it was anything rude.

[peezie]

Probably you don't get my point. I'm not bashing anything. It's just my personal opinion about this new aspect of tattoo machine building. Even though it was my first post, I don't feel it was anything rude.Apologies, I misunderstood what you were implying. Calling a new product a gimmick and the options it provides, snake oil, came off as bashing to me but I probably misunderstood. I still don't understand what your implying but I'm not bashing you either. Just my own personal opinion also so I apologize if you take my post the wrong way.

[ion]

Ok, so when you buy a machine, you actually buy the machine that works closer to what the ideal machine should work for you. You get in this case all those components: 3 motors, slides, excenters. Most likely after combining all this stuff, you come up with the ideal machine. What are you going to do with the remaining stuff that most likely you'll never use again just because it's not good enough for you? If you need a liner or another same setup, you buy another system, and get another 2/3 stuff you'll never use.

[peezie]

lol relax bro. It's just a new machine. Vote with your wallet.

[peezie]

maybe people can start a parts exchange post on here for the parts they dont use.

[Deakon]

I tried the boss' symbeos a few days ago. Very capable machine and the first rotary with give I have liked, usually prefer a direct solid hit. The only downside was the body is really long and the binders hold the clipcord up which made the machine quite back heavy and a little cumbersome. Managed to get some nice smooth grey with the short stroke settings though.

[crabink]

Ok, so when you buy a machine, you actually buy the machine that works closer to what the ideal machine should work for you. You get in this case all those components: 3 motors, slides, excenters. Most likely after combining all this stuff, you come up with the ideal machine. What are you going to do with the remaining stuff that most likely you'll never use again just because it's not good enough for you? If you need a liner or another same setup, you buy another system, and get another 2/3 stuff you'll never use.

That's what i'm saying... maybe they should introduce a one machine set up package.... 1 motor, 1 body, 1 slide style, 1 or 2 cams .... do that and the problem is fixed.

I would much rather spend 1100 dollars for two fully pimped out machines the way i want them, rather than 1400 for 2 entire packages full of duplicate tech.

That being said, I ran the blue cushion symbeos the other day #5 motor and loved the feel.. It is exactly what i want... The fact that it had a sputtering problem running really made me think there may be a few glitches to iron out since this is a newly launched machine and there is always room for improvement.

I am sure they play tested it and maybe it was nothing, but the fact that i had to ask the seller for my 600 dollars back from him really made me look like a asshole. The reason was I didn't want to get stuck selling one of my halos just to help buy the system (which I already did and didn't really want to) and having to sell the symbeos if it turned out to be problematic. I know he was pissed at me and I am sure the shit talking about me most likely ensued after i had to renig on the deal. And I don't blame them if they did since Juan Garcia is a master tattoo artist who has zero respect for me as an artist, even though I respect him a 100% as an artist and still to this day have remembered every little thing I learned from him, no matter how small, because everything he said all came true.

Anyways, maybe in the future Eikon and HM will listen to these issues.

Maybe they could hook up the forum with some custom orders?

[peezie]

That's what i'm saying... maybe they should introduce a one machine set up package.... 1 motor, 1 body, 1 slide style, 1 or 2 cams .... do that and the problem is fixed.

I would much rather spend 1100 dollars for two fully pimped out machines the way i want them, rather than 1400 for 2 entire packages full of duplicate tech.

That being said, I ran the blue cushion symbeos the other day #5 motor and loved the feel.. It is exactly what i want... The fact that it had a sputtering problem running really made me think there may be a few glitches to iron out since this is a newly launched machine and there is always room for improvement.

I am sure they play tested it and maybe it was nothing, but the fact that i had to ask the seller for my 600 dollars back from him really made me look like a asshole. The reason was I didn't want to get stuck selling one of my halos just to help buy the system (which I already did and didn't really want to) and having to sell the symbeos if it turned out to be problematic. I know he was pissed at me and I am sure the shit talking about me most likely ensued after i had to renig on the deal. And I don't blame them if they did since Juan Garcia is a master tattoo artist who has zero respect for me as an artist, even though I respect him a 100% as an artist and still to this day have remembered every little thing I learned from him, no matter how small, because everything he said all came true.

Anyways, maybe in the future Eikon and HM will listen to these issues.

Maybe they could hook up the forum with some custom orders?why would you want to overpay? 1100$? 915$ for deluxe system and a extra body will get you what you need bro. thats 2 full machines and extra parts for everything. Eikon site is setup funky but they do sell the body alone. you have to navigate to it through their menus. give me 1100$ and i'll order it for you haha. all cams all slides all motors and 2 bodies.No more excuses crab. Go get it!

[slicksteel]

I dont know what all the parts complaints are about hell you people drop 540 for a inkjecta, 549 for a spectra ,650-700 for a dragonfly etc etc.
and for 575 Symbeos flex setup ,you get a extra motor/cam and slider -that is like getting a motor/cam and slider for a few bucks! and hell if you spend 690 that is cheaper then a stingray and a 40 more then the dragonfly and you are getting to complete backup motors/cam and two more back up slides! Eikon is trying to give people a great price break and this is the way it has to be done!-hell if you don't like the other sliders and motors/cams trade for the same ones you like for back ups. Are sell for cash which would actually bring the price you paid for one complete machine to like a a few hundred bucks -If assholes complain enough Eikon will change this to like 550 for one complete machine. Dumbass always have to ruin something good!

[crabink]

The dragonfly is ridiculously overpriced and would never spend 660.00 for one 3.7 stroke and one motor.
The ability to choose a motor by torque and speed to suit a certain function for a given machine is going to become common place.
Nedz does it.. you can choose a slow or fast motor.. so what if Eikon did the same thing.. and you can choose the slider and motor for 500-600
The point I am making is that it is very easy to do this.
What i want to know is are they going to change the ordering options in the future or is this written in stone?

And why does Eikon or Roman care so little they won't even weigh in on this thread?

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

hello everybody
hello crab
i have to excuse myself ,i have been working hard and the last months i think i did 4 conventions ( big part of which was introducing the symbeos out there in the actual field so people can try it in person and see what it is all about!!)
i just came back from Tin Tin's show in Paris which was crazy busy!!! and i have been looking a bit at the forum every few days when i had some time and personally thought it was going well how you guys were handling it…. and wanted to step in when i finally got some deal worked out for you guys…. jajajaja
but as soon as i read your post , about us caring so little, i had to step in.
i would really not like people getting that impression… i can actually not care more for this project!!! jajajaja it is what i call my baby …. i am very proud and excited about it.
i understand your point , but the beauty of this machine is actually that it is a system concept! that you can adjust the machine to works for you ( not you adjusting the way you work for the machine )
and for this the best option is the deluxe system ( that way you have every possibility to be able to achieve this! )
but you don't have to buy a new system every time… you can buy just one machine body and built it with the parts remaining from your first system and still have the possibility of interchanging them between each other…
now i know that in the future you will be able to buy parts for the system , but right now its the deluxe ( complete system)- the flex (1 body, 2 motors, 2slides and 2 stroke wheels ) -machine body to add to the systems parts and the upgrade to complete the flex into a deluxe……
i just jumped in to not leave the impression i don't care… i will try to get back soon with more info and hopefully a deal… jajaja
thanks again, roman

[brandonmull]

i think this is a cool concept.

[crabink]

Anyone run one yet?

[asA]

Machine body's sold separately on hms site as of this morning.

[peezie]

They sell it separately on eikon also. But you have to navigate through the menus to get to it. They should fix that as I only stumbled upon it by accident.

[Roman HM tattoomachines]

Yes... they had the bodies for sale since the day they launched it...

[peezie]

Yes... they had the bodies for sale since the day they launched it...Yea, the big problem is that when you go to eikon's website and click on the symbeos banner link it will only show the package deals available for purchase. Not much people know that they need to navigate through the product catalog link to buy the body separate. http://www.eikondevice.com/catalog/rotary-tattoo-machines/symbeos-rotary-system heres a link to the body in case anyone wants to buy a body separate.

[asA]

Was not obvious. Their site makes it seem like it's not an option.

[vodu]

well, I like it. The several options of configurations works for me as I like to change the way I tattoo every time, trying new things. of course it will have a config that I'll use more but I like to have the option to use a well defined "shape" as a pepper shade for example.

[Panos tattoo]

So,if the symbeos came as a standard machine ,post it and made a threat for reviews everyone would write its a killer machine ,is there any chance to make one with a slide or piston or what ever system?or get a stronger motor for carts? I've seen this for almost every new machine it's out there.instead the guy comes with a pack and says here's everything you need and everyone is bitching about it. (At least thats the impression i got reading this epic threat)
i believe that what doesn't fit one person is the holy grail of another.if you get a package and find out that this combination is best for me,there is a trade/buy/sell section in the forum that gives you the opportunity to trade parts or sell what you don't need.my 2 cents.