Cheyenne and their patents

Well maybe some good research should be done. Similar concepts have expire dates for monopoly. For example Razors have generic replacements after "x" years. There is some loophole for this as to create a free market. I believe it is 5 years but I haven't looked.

Also when Cheyenne ( Mt.Derm let's be honest ) allowed others to use the cartridge lock in their grips ( Inkjecta and others ) or even screw adapters for the official hawk grip, they are creating a standard. Once you establish a product as a standard you must fairly license that patent to people.

The patent work is so so convoluted, the only thing that I know it doesn't serve is the consumer. Without choice in a market there is no evolution of products. The hawk carts still don't come with normal needles and they have been out for at least 6 years now.

Granted I am not a patent expert or a lawyer, so don't take this as fact. Only opinionated, observation.

But from what I understood ttech use different needles right ? For exemple i dislike bugpins, but ttech makes cartridges in #12 no ? long tapers and all that ? I have only used hawk cartridges when i had one, but I didn't care much for their liners at all. Does it make ok though since cheyenne isn't offering this product and no one else is ? Or should we better use another machine just for a special configuration, and maybe see their sales drop ? I m just wondering really, no sarcasm

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Originally Posted by aurelien

But from what I understood ttech use different needles right ? For exemple i dislike bugpins, but ttech makes cartridges in #12 no ? long tapers and all that ? I have only used hawk cartridges when i had one, but I didn't care much for their liners at all. Does it make ok though since cheyenne isn't offering this product and no one else is ? Or should we better use another machine just for a special configuration, and maybe see their sales drop ? I m just wondering really, no sarcasm

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That is the same point I was making about they want the market to stay how it is. They don't care about making normal needles, they don't tattoo. Bug pins are the standard for cosmetic tattooing ( my understanding ) and that is what they know. They Don't care that T-Tech offers options that they don't.

oops yeah we posted at the same time ^^

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Originally Posted by aurelien

But from what I understood ttech use different needles right ? For exemple i dislike bugpins, but ttech makes cartridges in #12 no ? long tapers and all that ? I have only used hawk cartridges when i had one, but I didn't care much for their liners at all. Does it make ok though since cheyenne isn't offering this product and no one else is ? Or should we better use another machine just for a special configuration, and maybe see their sales drop ? I m just wondering really, no sarcasm

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For sure the use of t-tech for hawks is keeping the sales of the machines/tubes up-infact one of the things most people did not like was the carts at first which kept the machine sales down-lol t-tech has done them a favor really.

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Originally Posted by slicksteel

For sure the use of t-tech for hawks is keeping the sales of the machines/tubes up-infact one of the things most people did not like was the carts at first which kept the machine sales down-lol t-tech has done them a favor really.

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Man! when you are right, you are so right!

Mike has a patent on the centri. This machine has a lot of room for improvement. I can make a completely different looking machine with the same principles as the centri and also offer it at a better price point. You, as a consumer, would definitely benefit from this. He's not a big company either and has yet to go into production. Would it be a ripoff if I used his technology and expanded upon it? Definitely would be taking food out of his and his family's mouth. I personally don't have any cartridge machines or setup and wont support a product that fits cheyenne carts. Now that's just me. This topic has definitely hit a nerve with some of you. As much as I'd like to give my opinion on points that have been brought up, it seems further opinion from me will benefit no one at this point. I have respect for everyone here regardless of who you support whether it be cheyenne or TTECH. With that said, feel free to continue the conversation, but try to respect each others opinions.

You have a valid point, the only thing is that I do use the cartidge system, plan on buying the one from fkirons also, but thats just my personal opinion on me liking them, a lot of people dont like the behind the scene stuff such between cheyenne and ttech but I use whats good for me.

Actually he did take it from aerospace tech and applied it to tattooing-and yes is a great guy and has a patent for his machine. But if someone can make a better more reliable model and it does not look like a exact clone while ripping the same makers name/description I dont see anything wrong with it.-It's called progress.Now if its no better or actually runs worse-this of course is not progress.I think if works and functions better and is a better product it would be stupid not to bring it to the table. Just as much as he has taken what others have come up with before him and not paid for it. So should it be allowed to be shared to better the idea behind it...

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Originally Posted by slicksteel

Actually he did take it from aerospace tech and applied it to tattooing-and yes is a great guy and has a patent for his machine. But if someone can make a better more reliable model and it does not look like a exact clone while ripping the same makers name/description I dont see anything wrong with it.-It's called progress.Now if its no better or actually runs worse-this of course is not progress.I think if works and functions better and is a better product it would be stupid not to bring it to the table. Just as much as he has taken what others have come up with before him and not paid for it. So should it be allowed to be shared to better the idea behind it...

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Ok, this will be my one last post for this topic lol. Sorry, couldn't resist. I guess it's because I build machines myself that I see things the way I do. As an artist, I would love to do that to have another kickass machine with no flaws. As a builder, I wouldn't be able to do that to Mike. He deserves to make his money off his invention regardless of where or how he was inspired to make his machine. Improvements to ideas can be patented so long as those ideas being improved upon aren't already patented. The people that came up with the ideas he's building upon have had time to make their money. Now is his time. I myself, am gonna respect that. The proper thing for me to do would be to license it from him and than improve upon it and then we both make money. If I did it any other way, it would be stealing. Patents are only granted to the specific industry to which you applied for. Someone can be inspired by the centri and apply the technology to fishing or biking or whatever and get a patent for it. With that said, as a consumer, I do understand where you're coming from and I do respect that. You wont be hearing me tell anyone not to buy TTECHs (and I haven't throughout this whole time) . I'm just speaking for myself. It's not my place to tell anyone to do anything. I hope you guys continue this conversation with respect to each other.

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Originally Posted by artoftatt2

It's been years since I've seen it but it was the same twist lock cartridge.. I'm not a huge fan of cheyenne considering the fact that they don't care about tattooers.. Although I do use their products hopefully ill be all flite soon.. But I deff don't see anyone bad mouthing the guys that came out with grips for the cartridges after cheyenne already had a grip.. I know of at least four companies stepping on their toes over that one and its just the same...

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You need a hug.

Hey peezie maybe you and mike should get to gether and knock out a sick machine based of his style. That would be sweet. You have a point and I have been saying on here all along the way to do is to lic your product out to others like guitar makers do to a certain set of standards/service and set prices-that way there can be a profit on both end's instead of the china boys just doing blant rips. If there was lower priced less frills models but still made well -not very many would buy the clones as you could get a lic well made version with service if your short on cash.;)

No hugs needed... Nothing but love for ya gaston.. I don't hate on anyone trying to make a dollar.

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Originally Posted by peezie

Mike has a patent on the centri. This machine has a lot of room for improvement. I can make a completely different looking machine with the same principles as the centri and also offer it at a better price point. You, as a consumer, would definitely benefit from this. He's not a big company either and has yet to go into production. Would it be a ripoff if I used his technology and expanded upon it? Definitely would be taking food out of his and his family's mouth. I personally don't have any cartridge machines or setup and wont support a product that fits cheyenne carts. Now that's just me. This topic has definitely hit a nerve with some of you. As much as I'd like to give my opinion on points that have been brought up, it seems further opinion from me will benefit no one at this point. I have respect for everyone here regardless of who you support whether it be cheyenne or TTECH. With that said, feel free to continue the conversation, but try to respect each others opinions.

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I may be wrong but isn't what stigma did with the swashplate system ?

I feel that t-tech has helped in some way to the selling of some "cheyennes" cause it would be harder to consider buying a system limited to just their expensive cartridges.

you could call it piggy backing. but one thing, i know a lot of artists that wouldn't have even considered buying the hawk if they had to pay 3$ a cartridge. but i do agree patents are patents.

there are patents and then international patents, then there is the fact that you could roll an international patent up into a lead pipe and beat it over the head of a chinese manufacturer till his brains oozed out, and it wouldnt stop the next chinese manufacturer from stepping into his place. While we rely on cheap labor to keep costs low there is absolutely no effective way to punish the chinese for intellectual theft. It wont stop until they no longer manufacter the bulk of our mass produced goods.

WORD!

all hail t-tech!! lol

I just wanna do good tattoos with a machine I don't have to fuck with constantly!!!! I like my Cheyenne machines and I like my ttech carts because I don't have to go broke. Not all of us are booked out for years and have a $1000 minimum!!!


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none of it really matters, ttech isn't going anywhere, they paved the way for a cheaper cart and have now made the price of their carts the standard for any carts that are released in the future. cheyennes panties got all in a wad because they saw their monopoly on the cart industry slipping from their hands. their reaction to this issue was, lets slander ttechs product with propaganda fueled videos, refuse warranties on any hawk machines if they were used with ttech carts claiming " the ink would run up the grip into the machine body and destroy the motor". utter and complete bullshit by the way. like ray from neo said, cheyennes parent company tries to sell cart driven cosmetic tattoo machines in the excess of 5,000.00 in the guise of the machines being a medical certified equipment! so before Cheyenne decided to infiltrate our "tattoo industry" yet again with more overpriced certified equipment, granted not in the same absurd ballpark of their medical tattoo machines, they were already robbing people. we are just the latest victims of their corporate greed. so when Cheyenne couldn't push ttech out with an absurd law suit, they decide well if we cant beat them and our cart sells are not what they were when we monopolized the industry, we might as well deliver a cheaper cart, which is their right. my point is no matter how big a company is and no matter how great a companies bankroll is, their money and power doesn't mean they will always win. ttech showed the world you can create a quality cartridge at an affordable price, and in doing so they pissed off a conglomerate who then tried to crush them. in the end they failed, and ttech showed us that david could really slay goliath. I believe their is a valuable lesson to be taken from that. you better recamothafuckinize! lol.

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Originally Posted by thejackco

I feel that t-tech has helped in some way to the selling of some "cheyennes" cause it would be harder to consider buying a system limited to just their expensive cartridges.

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This is very true, I and a few others I know, bought the Thunder and pu2........which I or they would have never done if Ttech doesnt come out with a more affordable cartridge.

CHEYENNE just come out with a LOW COST CARTRIDGE series, similar T-TECH

did u guys have seen yet ???

With a few disposables in the works, hopefully they start producing better and/or cheaper grips too.

Inkjecta are endorsing a new cartridge! I saw it on there instagram I tagged fkiron and bishop in the post because it was at the same time as there announcement about the disposable grip, got myself blocked from inkjectas instagram haha fuck did I care oh no. Only thing is I bought a flite V2 a day before and I was hoping it was a shit machine when it arrived but no it's a great machine! ! ! Bloody typical.

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Originally Posted by hellraiser6662

Inkjecta are endorsing a new cartridge! I saw it on there instagram I tagged fkiron and bishop in the post because it was at the same time as there announcement about the disposable grip, got myself blocked from inkjectas instagram haha fuck did I care oh no. Only thing is I bought a flite V2 a day before and I was hoping it was a shit machine when it arrived but no it's a great machine! ! ! Bloody typical.

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http://www.rotarytattoo.com/showthre...w-Hawk-carts!!

Not on here for a few days and not being able to see on inkjecta instagram as being blocked things have moved on, so inkjecta are in bed with hawk then! Me and Gaston was talking about this at the London convention interesting conversation! Now things are more clearer from the first pic I saw before the ban just before London convention. The thought of inkjecta doing there own needles was good but now it's still hawk, makes it still a two horse race between t-tech & hawk we need a wild card to pop its head in haha

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Originally Posted by hellraiser6662

Inkjecta are endorsing a new cartridge! I saw it on there instagram I tagged fkiron and bishop in the post because it was at the same time as there announcement about the disposable grip, got myself blocked from inkjectas instagram haha fuck did I care oh no. Only thing is I bought a flite V2 a day before and I was hoping it was a shit machine when it arrived but no it's a great machine! ! ! Bloody typical.

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why would you be blocked? for tagging us?

Who knows? But it's no great deal in my eyes. Like we talked about at the London convention, he sounds a little up his own arse! ! But hay I don't care.

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