Rotary w/ Perfect Give Settings

Hey guys, my name's Lockwood. Just recently joined the forum and I could use a little advice. I'm fairly new to rotaries. I've been using a wide range of quality coils for the last couple years, but I've been using a Bizarre V2 almost exclusively for the last 4 months and a Storm for the last few weeks. Love my Bizarre but I'm not a huge fan of the needle tension or the give adjustment system. It's awesome when you need a softer hit or a lot of give but trying to achieve a harder hit requires you to tighten the tension adjuster to the point of choking out the motor or turning up the volts higher than what you'd need often enough. I like the precision of using the no-give Storm for lining but feel it's a little aggressive for sure. Feel the same way about shading w/ it too, especially Blk & Grey. For doing blk & grey w/ it I simply turn it down to a point where the motor gives slightly for a softer hit. This of course slows down my work, so not a good option for me. . I'm thinkin' about a Bishop Capo, mostly because of the enclosed slide and the Maxon motor. But I also like Franco's philosophy he posted about offering a softer hitting spring loaded slide that's non-adjustable. Haven't tried one though and I don't even know if it's available. But I might not be opposed to an adjustable tension system if I had a better option.

I guess ideally I'd like to find a rotary w/ a well balanced non-adjustable dampening system or a machine w/ an adjustable tension system that isn't so dependent on voltage/speed/velocity in order to achieve a more solid hit.

Any suggestions or insight would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
-Lockwood

Read through Franco's published info about his philosophy regarding rotary machines. The Bishop and the Capo are no give machines. A Neuma Hybrid or The machine that No Iron Machines makes might have the closest to your description of an enclosed mechanism and a silicone bumper.

Many of The tattooed pirate machines have spring loaded glides as well with little to no adjustment if that is also what you are looking for.

I know there are probably a hundred more I have missed but this is what has come to mind this moment.

Check the centri out has all the give in the whole wide world of machines

I like the Vivace it is a non adjustable with two different spring weights.

hey wonderland is that what the second spring that came w my vivace is i thought it was just an extra what are the different weights for

The Mini Cranker from Dan Kubin has slight dampening to it, does lining, packing, b&g with little to no adjustment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smiley

hey wonderland is that what the second spring that came w my vivace is i thought it was just an extra what are the different weights for

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One of the springs is a stiffer spring, at least they werenin mine it seems, one of them was silver in color and the other was red and seems to be stiffer.

hi lockwood. imo the perfect give machine is the sunskin primus. it is the best machine for portraits and shadings i have ever used incl coils. makes shadings so easy. it has a fixed give, which hits a bit harder than the bizarres give and still is effective. the primus feels like a slow,but very precise coil machine. theres a very good review in this forum about the primus. its a bit heavy, but you will love it.

The action rotary by no irons is great! it can do it all with ease,it is a sold build that can do it all,a very powerful fullsize maxon is in it that can push very large mags like 23 etc with ease. It has 3 give dampers that will let you do anything you want.
The trick to use a no give or rotary such as a direct drive or neo tat is to learn to use a shorter stoke ride off the needle tips as that is what a coil is doing when it has alot of give-it backs up to were the needles tips are only going in. With that in ,mind use extra long tapers or bugpins to get that smooth smeared bng.Also you can use different brands of solid black that are different in stengths( shake the bottle let it set for a min pour out a few drops then put a clean drop on a diaper or folded over towel and watch how the ink spreads-you will see the pigment in the middle dot spread the carrier fluid will spread with it around the out side)this will tell you the strengths as you compare them.Hold the machine so needle is more up and down to the area unlike a coil were you would angle it more. You can use these methods with different needle depths,soft gromments and skin stretch to get super smooth bng. After awhile it like walking-we dont think right foot left foot-are body just does it.
This is what franco-bishop talkes about-getting in tune with the persons skin and your needles/pigments.

I've been using my new Bishop Capo for about a week now and I gotta say, I think the amount of give is perfect! It's dampened just about perfect for my taste even at the higher end of the recommended voltage range, I don't really turn it down much. I use the 3.5mm stroke and I think it's the best shader I've used yet, but it's really too soft of a hit for a liner in my opinion. I'd like to try the 4.2mm stroke wheel for lining. Even though it runs a little slower than I'd prefer for a liner, it's just such a smooth, precise and well balanced machine that I may be willing to sacrifice some speed. The stroke is so precise that it's really hard going back to my Bizarre and that blasted give system. And my Storm is now a designated t-tech machine because w/o the pre-load of the cartridges to dampen the hit it's just too much. It has absolutely NO GIVE at higher voltages. If the Capo is what No-Give machines are really about then I'm in. I pre-ordered a Spectra Halo to try out though, I was especially intrigued by the faster down stroke. Got a 4mm stroke wheel coming w/ it too so I can try it out as a liner. Depending on how that goes I might try the 4.2 mm stroke on my Capo for lining before I break down and purchase a Cranker or one of Nick's machines. I'll keep you posted.

If you want to try a liner with a non adjustable give you should try a mini Evolution... The give on the Rotula system is fantastic specially for fine lining and small detail work.