BISHOP ROTARY

[Alie K]

Well damm everyone is so sensative!! I had to do a lil research to even respon to my last message in wich wasn't intended to fluster any feathers. I have came across quite a few rotaries and I will sum them up as one being a linear moving rotary machine like the bishop neotat stigma dragonfly blitz and the rapier to mane a few. And a few of these just have a small size chane in the linear slide but are all based in identical movement and physics. Second is the stealth type movements and the swissrotary as well as the shag built. In wich a motor moves a shaft like object attatched to a cam on the motor and the armature bar. And so did they all copy eachother? And the 3 rd type of rotary is the swash movement that the swashdrive uses as well as one of the stigma models and a few other manufacturers use. Did they all copy eachother? Or how about did Aaron Cain copy Jim dandy or any other pioneer in coil machines? The bottom line here is other machine builders use similar technology when building thei machine but still using custom designing just coil machine builders have been doing for decades. Also the true history of the linear oscilating rotary movement can be traced to mens electric shavers, electric hair cutters an mechanical toothbrushes. So I don't want to read any more bashing on machine builders. Alli k said it best. There are plenty of good and different rotarys used for many applications. Everyone I know has more than one coil. So why not more than one rotary!! Or do people like Ray and a few others feel like they invented this technology and therefore no one can come close to a simple theoristic design? I wonder if the first coil machine builder would be mad at and modern coil builder??? I think not!! So everyone and every rotary company (in wich there are more than 25 rotary companies) I wish all of you guys sucess and please stop bashing. It's very immature and we all are adults. And I know alot of supply houses sell a ton of things that they know nothing about since they don't tattoo, I still will always have a sour taste in my mouth when inks and machines are made from non tattooers. Just my opinion.

Yes, I agree with some of your points. Did you know that regarding rotary movement, electric shavers and toothbrushes were invented about 100 years later than Edison's engraving pen? ...and the oscilating mechanism or eccentric cam was used in steam engine locomotives in the 1800's! I think it's pretty innovative for anyone to take something of such a large scale and be able to shrink it down and be able to adapt it to a different use. (P.S.) Did you know the coil tattoo machine design was taken from a doorbell design?

Frankly, I have had several experiences with products made by tattooers for the tattoo industry that have left a sour taste in my mouth. I have learned that just because something is made by a tattooer, it doesn't mean it's good. I've thrown my fair share of those products away. Sure, there are the "Jack of all trades" variety out there who have their fingers in many pots, but those individuals are very few and far between. Sure, I know some amazing tattooers who don't know the difference between their, they're and their in a sentence (or the fact that there is a huge difference between a sentence and a sentance), I know some Tattooers who do nice work with the needles they solder each morning and inks they mix themselves (but don't mass produce), and I have met some eclectic inventors who are always thinking of new ways to make things safer and easier and are very enthusiastic about the industry, but have maybe only dabbled in the actual art of tattooing.

It doesn't really matter to me if someone makes a product for the industry that isn't a tattooer (like the gentleman who decided to make tatu-derm a reality for the many artists who use it). If you make something that is tried and true, awesome. You rock. There are exceptions to every rule.

sorry my opinion im not bashing ...the neo dude is bashing ... and alie ... shag "mike" makes very nice hand made rotaries ... http://www.shagbuilt.com/ ..

Yep, I'm fully aware of Shagbuilt machines. I hope I remembered to reference it earlier.

i think in this time and place its really hard to impossible NOT to make a machine of any kind that looks like someone elses .... cant reinvent the wheel ...you can just make it look better...

Yes, and though I believe that, I don't actually believe in the 'not reinventing the wheel' theory. There are so many products out there that have been improved upon or reinvented. Original airbags vs reduced impact airbags - same exact thing, except now people are less likely to get a broken nose or appendage when their airbag goes off - I know you get my point.

On that note,

This thread started out asking what the difference was between 2 machines.
So far, differences I have seen:
-Small weight difference
-Design/shape difference
-One has a choice of 3 machines with different strokes
-Made in their country of origin, not China.

Similarities I have seen:
-Needle bar movement(linear) and no need for rubber bands (same clip mechanism)
-Available in different colors
-The people who use them, are very enthusiastic about them

One machine is endorsed by a tattooer. Is he hands-on in the fabrication process or was his idea discussed with an engineer? Is he familiar with the other machine as well? The other machine has a long pedigree of artists using it for years, and is made by an engineer who has been inventing products for not only the tattoo industry, the permanent cosmetic industry, as well as the medical industry. Though he may have tattooed some pieces here and there, he does not consider himself a tattooer. Two different companies, two different machines. Slightly different mechanical setups which may make some differences in the way a tattoo is done.

I'd love to say that I own both machines, so that I can use them both on a daily basis and be able to discuss what I felt each model's strengths were. I don't. Maybe I'll get to hang out with someone who owns the other and has never used mine and we can swap for a while and experience both.

Yes, this thread started out with some valid questions, then got a little ugly at about the 20th post or so. That's not where I want the forum to go in any way, shape or form.

I truly want this to be a place where we can discuss questions, techniques, show off our work, brag about new machines we bought or have invented, buy, sell, trade... whatever. I don't want to see any negativity towards others, I don't want to see hurtful remarks. Just a bunch of us with the common interest of doing the best tattoos we can, and perhaps helping each other out along the way. K?

I think I can close the thread now. Let's start fresh. If you have more to say, you can PM me.